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Re: [Phys-l] defn of capacitance



Carl and others,

There was a discussion on Phys-L back in March of 1997 that began with a question from Ludwik titled "How many volts?" and led into this same territory.

See

<https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/archives/1997/03_1997/msg00476.html>

and the subsequent discussion.

John Mallinckrodt
Cal Poly Pomona

On Feb 6, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Carl Mungan wrote:

Some of us (locally) have been discussing the definition of
capacitance (restricted for simplicity to the case of two isolated
conductors only) and we seem to have run across a problem with how to
define it if the charges on the two conductors are NOT (necessarily)
equal and opposite. For simplicity let's say that we only have vacuum
outside of both conductors.

My initial stab at a definition was the following: Capacitance is
uniquely defined if I specify the geometry of the two conductors
(shapes, sizes, separations, etc) as delta(V)/Q where delta(V) is the
absolute value of the line integral of E between the two conductors
and Q is the absolute value of the average difference in charges of
the two plates (ie. half of the difference in charges on the two
plates).

Here's an example for the case of two parallel plates, charge Qa on
the left plate and Qb on the right plate each of area A. Say Qa>Qb
for specificity.

between the plates E = Qa/2*A*e - Qb/2*A*e where e=1/4*pi*k
so delta(V) = (Qa-Qb)*d/2*A*e where d=distance between plates
but Q=(Qa-Qb)/2
conclude C=Q/delta(V)=A*e/d as usual

Note the answer doesn't matter what charges we put on the two plates.
But now here's a case where the answer DOES depend on them, which
seems to contradict the usual idea of capacitance being independent
of charge:

Choose two concentric spheres, an inner one of radius a and an outer
one of radius b. Place charge Qa on the inner one and Qb on the outer
one. Again say Qa>Qb for specificity.

between the spheres E = k*Qa/r^2 independent of Qb
so delta(V) = k*Qa*(b-a)/a*b
but Q=(Qa-Qb)/2
conclude C depends on the charges!

Please fix my definition of C for the case of two isolated conductors
in vacuum carrying charges which are not necessarily equal and
opposite. As a test, demonstrate that your fixed definition works for
both of the examples listed above. -Carl
--
Carl E Mungan, Assoc Prof of Physics 410-293-6680 (O) -3729 (F)
Naval Academy Stop 9c, 572C Holloway Rd, Annapolis MD 21402-5002
mailto:mungan@usna.edu http://usna.edu/Users/physics/mungan/
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
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A. JOHN MALLINCKRODT
Professor of Physics, Cal Poly Pomona
http://www.csupomona.edu/~ajm
Acting Editor, AMERICAN JOURNAL of PHYSICS
http://www.kzoo.edu/ajp

Professional/Personal email: ajm@csupomona.edu
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