Re: [Phys-L] Private schools

[Marty Weiss <martweiss@comcast.net>]

On Jul 10, 2012, at 5:49 PM, Ze'ev Wurman wrote:

> On 7/10/2012 6:57 AM, John Denker wrote:
> > On 07/10/2012 05:36 AM, Richard Tarara wrote:
> > > Public education was established for the welfare of the SOCIETY--not the individual or the parents.
> > Yes!  Thank you!
> >
> > This point needs to be continually emphasized.
> Education as a welfare for the society *at large* is mostly a 20th century construct in this country. America was established without one, and fought a civil war without one. Before last century education in this country was for the welfare of the citizens first and the local community second, paid by its users and supported by the local community for those who could not afford it. So history clearly shows one doesn't need state monopoly on education to create a country with a cohesive philosophy.

But this is the 21st century when we need educated people.. otherwise why do we discuss all the physics issues and minutiae on this list... 19th century is long gone as we try to convince some people, even here.  
> Only in the 20th century it started to be "for the welfare of the *society*" with state coercion and under the penalty of imprisonment if ignored. With a decreasing focus on the individual, and with an increasing focus on making it a tool of the state. Like a military draft to a large degree, except that nobody pretends that a draft is about developing the individual. And with its attendant unionization and barrier-to-entry setting by its entrenched interests and rent seekers, like with any large state endeavor.
>
> > There is a powerful minority that seems to argue that there is no
> > such thing as a community and no such thing as a public good ...
> > but we cannot concede this argument.  We must eternally and vigorously
> > refute this argument.  Even 50-year-old people who have no children
> > in school should consider school taxes a very very good investment.
> > The short version of one part of the argument is that without a good
> > education system, the services those people plan on buying will not
> > be available at any price.  Survivalists can (sorta) stockpile food,
> > but they cannot stockpile services.
> Straw argument. Essentially everybody agrees that there is a community and public good. What we do not always agree on is how intrusive a community ought to be, and what a "public good" is. I already pointed to the examples of Belgium and Sweden with their essentially 100% voucherized education as a possible model much closer to American ethos than the statist education in the 19th century European tradition we have developed here last century. On the other end I can point out to an anecdote I read some time back about China, where one has essentially a single chance to make it on university entrance exams, or be barred forever from college. Asked whether it is "fair" to the students, a Chinese official responded: "We get sufficient number of engineers this way."

So, asked about Finland one person says they have the "best" testers.  Ask another person and they say the Finns are a more or less tiny homogeneous population.  Ask one and they say Europe is a socialist experiment that failed. Ask someone else and they say look at Europe for successful education.  So, why do we keep bringing up the European model when that in itself becomes a straw argument?  
>