Re: [Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test

["John Clement" <clement@hal-pc.org>]

After 10 years of testing, the results are essentially the same from one
year to the next, and do not deviate more than about 10%.  The results are
depressingly similar no matter who the math teachers are.  Actually the best
math teachers have been chased out of the school and they claim that public
school students are better in math.  This is consistent with the metastudy
comparing private and public schools.  The private schools do not do better
when the SES effect is accounted for, and Catholic schools are lower in
math.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX

> Hi all-
> Such numbers are meaningless, as are all experimental results, unless one
> knows the statistical and systematic uncertainties associated with the
> results..  When the experiment falls in the realm of the social
> sciences, as research attempts in education must, the systematic
> uncertainties merit extensive discussion and are difficult to quantify.
> Among the systematic uncertainties are the effects of the time and
> placement of the experiment, the precise definitions of the categories
> compared, and the identification of relevant factors.
>
> The art of estimating systematic uncertainties seems to improve when the
> experiment is repeated many times and the deviations in quantitative
> results are accounted for.  When systematic uncertainties are under
> control, numerical results from different experiments will fluctuate
> in accordance with statistical predictions.
>  					Regards,
>  						Jack
>
>
> On Sun, 13 Jul 2008, John Clement wrote:
>
> > My estimate comes straight from the Lawson Piagetian test published in
> his
> > book.  75% of the honors students do exhibit proportional reasoning
> while
> > only 25% of the regular students exhibit proportional reasoning.  Since
> the
> > really low students do not take physics 30% is a reasonable estimate for
> > proportional reasoning.
> >
> > John M. Clement
> > Houston, TX
> >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > I would venture to guess that the students in your private prep school
> > > probably are more likely to be at the formal operational level than
> those
> > > in average public schools, so your 30% estimate may be a bit high.
> > >
> > > Mark Shapiro
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > According to Shayer & Adey students need to be at the formal
> operational
> > > level to be able to understand a 3 variable equation such as F=ma.
> Since
> > > only about 30% of US students are capable of understanding
> proportionality
> > > when they are seniors in HS, algebra is literally impossible for most
> > > students even in HS.  Pushing advanced abstract concepts down to lower
> > > grades is absurd when students do not understand proportional reasoning
> or
> > > conservation reasoning.
> > >
> > > Incidentally the 30% figure comes from my testing of students in a
> college
> > > prep private school in Houston.
> > >
> > > If this seems a bit late on the topic, it is because I have been on a
> > > river
> > > boat tour of Russia for 2 weeks.
> > >
> > > John M. Clement
> > > Houston, TX
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> "Trust me.  I have a lot of experience at this."
>  		General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
>  		just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley
>
>
>
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