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*From*: "John Clement" <clement@hal-pc.org>*Date*: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:28:44 -0500

My estimate comes straight from the Lawson Piagetian test published in his

book. 75% of the honors students do exhibit proportional reasoning while

only 25% of the regular students exhibit proportional reasoning. Since the

really low students do not take physics 30% is a reasonable estimate for

proportional reasoning.

John M. Clement

Houston, TX

John,

I would venture to guess that the students in your private prep school

probably are more likely to be at the formal operational level than those

in average public schools, so your 30% estimate may be a bit high.

Mark Shapiro

-----Original Message-----

According to Shayer & Adey students need to be at the formal operational

level to be able to understand a 3 variable equation such as F=ma. Since

only about 30% of US students are capable of understanding proportionality

when they are seniors in HS, algebra is literally impossible for most

students even in HS. Pushing advanced abstract concepts down to lower

grades is absurd when students do not understand proportional reasoning or

conservation reasoning.

Incidentally the 30% figure comes from my testing of students in a college

prep private school in Houston.

If this seems a bit late on the topic, it is because I have been on a

river

boat tour of Russia for 2 weeks.

John M. Clement

Houston, TX

**Follow-Ups**:**Re: [Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*Jack Uretsky <jlu@hep.anl.gov>

**References**:**[Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*Bernard Cleyet <bernardcleyet@redshift.com>

**[Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*Robert Yeend <ryeend@sbcglobal.net>

**Re: [Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*"Wes Davis" <wlrdavis@earthlink.net>

**Re: [Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*"Shapiro, Mark" <mshapiro@Exchange.FULLERTON.EDU>

**Re: [Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*"John Clement" <clement@hal-pc.org>

**Re: [Phys-l] Ca mandates 8th-grade algebra test***From:*"Shapiro, Mark" <mshapiro@Exchange.FULLERTON.EDU>

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