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"And of course we know
that Republicans are more often anti-science than Democrats,"
- John Clement
However, A new University of Texas/Texas Tribune survey shows
a large number of Texans polled said they still don't believe
in evolution and are convinced that humans and dinosaurs co-existed:
- 51 percent disagree with the statement, "Human beings, as
we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals."
- 38 percent agree with the statement, "God created human
beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago."
- 30 percent agree with the statement, "Humans and dinosaurs
lived at the same time." Another 30 percent said they "don't
know" whether the statement is true.
Since we are arguing by statistics - are we to assume that
John Clement (Houston, TX) is probably a closet Republican?
Bob at PC
________________________________________
From: Phys-l [phys-l-bounces@phys-l.org] on behalf of John
Clement [clement@hal-pc.org]
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 5:49 PM
To: Phys-L@Phys-L.org
Subject: Re: [Phys-L] science +- politics +- religious
denominations (plural)
Well of course anti-science attitudes are not just a function
of religion.
They are a function of particular religios groups, and are
also a function of built in paradigms. There was a study
which showed that a larger number of Korean (as I recall)
students had a resistance to evolution even though there is
no religios reason to oppose it.
Of course the numbers are not corrected the number of
individuals in each denomination. The Catholic church is far
and away the largest one, while the Episcopal church is not
very large. Presbyterian refers to the origin of the church
and the organization, not to specific conservative vs liberal
orientations. Most of the mainline churches, Catholic,
Methodist... endorse scientific findings. The Lutheran
church in the US is split into different synods with the
Missouri Synod being "conservative" and anti-science.
Muslims generally accept geology and cosmology, but not
evolution. Buddists have no qualms about science or even
abortion. Thailand, a 95% Buddist country, has endorsed gay
marriage. A friend told me that the best explanation he had
for evolution was told him by a nun in a Catholic school.
My wife found that the churches in Durham, NC, when she was
growing up, accepted science and were very similar. I
suspect that is a function of large established churches in
urban areas.
If a church is labeled evangelical there is a large
probability of its members espousing anti-science attitudes.
Churches that bill themselves as "conservative" will probably
also be anti-science. And of course we know that Republicans
are more often anti-science than Democrats, while
independents are the most accepting of science. But we also
know that Republicans are more likely to be involved in their
churches according to the surveys. So whether anti-science
attitudes are due to religion or politics is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that people with these attitudes are in
charge of education and science funding in key places in the
government. I don't hear prominent conservatives castigating
these attitudes. And of course if liberals decry these
attitudes, then science is labeled as a liberal idea. That
never used to be true in the past. Both sides at one time
supported sceince, but no more. We need to go back to a bit
more civility with science universally accepted. But that
requires real education!
Anton Lawson has a number of papers where he shows increases
in thinking skills, and also explores why students have
trouble with evolution.
Conventional lecture courses basically do not change student
minds. They have to engage with material to change. Yes,
education does involve doctrination, to an extent. It can
even involve kindly brain washing, but that is done by
getting students to think deeply and explore concepts.
John M. Clement
Houston, TX
the phrase
Here are some amusing numbers:
0 lds.org The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints
0 pcanet.org Presbyterian Church in America
0 cumberland.org Cumberland Presbyterian Church
1 naccc.org National Association of
Congregational Christian Churches
7 mormon.org The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints
7 lcms.org Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod
107 urj.org Union for Reform Judaism
345 ucc.org United Church of Christ
619 anglicancommunion.org Anglican Communion
1010 pcusa.org Presbyterian Church USA
1870 umc.org United Methodist Church
2690 episcopalchurch.org Episcopal Church
3700 .va Roman Catholic Church
The numbers represent google's count of the number of times
"climate change" appears on each denomination's web site.climate change in
For example, the Pontifical Academy of Science lumps
with deforestation and other habitat-destruction issues,which seems
remarkably reasonable to me.think that the
It pays to be careful. At the lexical level you might
Presbyterian Church in the USA might be similar to the PresbyterianIt looks to
Church in America ... but that would be spectacularly wrong, by a
ratio of 1000 to zero.
====
These numbers suggest to me that it would be a serious mistake to
associate the anti-science attitude with religion per se.
me like politics, not religion.
There are some denominations that believe that separation of church
and state is good for the church /and/ good for the state ... but
other denominations not so much.
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Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@phys-l.org
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Forum for Physics Educators
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