Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

Re: [Phys-L] Evaluation tests



Here are my thoughts after teaching a variety of courses (math, earth
science, physical science, regular physics, honors physics, and astronomy)
to students in many grade levels (7 - 12) in 25 years at four schools
(single sex and co-ed) in three states:

Physics is different because it involves critical thinking of everyday
concepts that are often counterintuitive (e.g., velocity can be increasing
while acceleration is decreasing). Then, the language is different and
specific: speed vs velocity, energy vs momentum, temperature vs. heat,
etc. And then there's the math element, where you have to read a word
problem and decipher what is going on to find a solution with a set of
equations. And memorization will only get you so far (not very far) in
physics. So you need specific "skills/abilities" in physics that are not
needed in any other course. Physics requires "good" teachers and "good"
students. It's easily the most challenging class a student can take. We're
trying to understand the laws of the universe. What could be more
difficult than that?

Phys-L@Phys-L.org writes:
This brings up a question which is interesting to me and I don't know how
to articulate it well. Most physicists sat that physics is different
than chemistry or algebra. I believe it to be true. But why is it
different? High school chemistry (in the guise I saw) can be just as
algebraically intensive as high school physics. So I don't quite buy the
idea that it is different by virtue of the applied math skills required;
though I do believe that that is a piece of the "elephant" or a piece of
the explanation.

Also, can it be articulated in a way that you are willing to repeat to
your chemistry of biology or math colleagues in polite company; i.e. in a
way that doesn't reinforce the stereotype of "arrogant" physicist. Which
is to say that I don't quite believe it is sufficient, nor quite
accurate, to simply say physics is harder and you have to be smarter to
be successful at the course.

Any thoughts? As I am procrastinating from grading finals.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phys-l [mailto:phys-l-bounces@phys-l.org] On Behalf Of Philip Keller
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:06 PM
To: Phys-L@Phys-L.org
Subject: Re: [Phys-L] Evaluation tests

Right, but still I'd be tempted to look at the data to see if, say, the
average of their grades in chemistry and algebra did a better or worse
job predicting their results in physics than the test you use. After
all, while physics is different than either chemistry or algebra, it is
also different than the arithmetic class where we hope they would have
learned about fractions.

On 12/17/2013 5:19 PM, Anthony Lapinski wrote:
I'm at a private school and physics is an elective. Many are
encouraged to take physics to have all three foundation courses for
college. To me, the "placement" test is a useful thing. I've had
juniors do poorly on it, drop physics, and take physics again as
seniors -- and do very well.

And as I've said before, physics is unlike any course a student will
ever take. It requires a different way of thinking, and some kids
simply don't have the proper skills to do well. And "working hard"
is sometimes not enough.


Phys-L@Phys-L.org writes:
On 12/17/2013 4:39 PM, Ze'ev Wurman wrote:
And remember what started this thread. It is NOT ABOUT SOLVING THE
PROBLEM, IT IS ABOUT THE PREDICTIVE POWER OF THE PROBLEM.

Taking that to heart, I wonder if these tests are worth giving. If
the goal is to do a service to students who sign up but with little
chance of earning a c or better, I suspect that there is a lot of
information available with more predictive power: grades in previous
science classes, high school gpa, even math SAT score might do a
better job than what has been proposed so far. But to find out, you
would have to check the data.

But I am not sure that is our role to make these predictions. If a
student has a destination in mind and physics is one of the
requirements along the way, then despite what my (admittedly fuzzy)
prediction model would say, my first instinct is to say come on in
and be prepared to work hard.
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@phys-l.org
http://www.phys-l.org/mailman/listinfo/phys-l

_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@phys-l.org
http://www.phys-l.org/mailman/listinfo/phys-l

_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@phys-l.org
http://www.phys-l.org/mailman/listinfo/phys-l
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@phys-l.org
http://www.phys-l.org/mailman/listinfo/phys-l