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Re: [Phys-l] Lecture Isn't Effective: More Evidence #2



Again, this does not prove that the observed lectures were effective. I
have asked for evidence. The problem with looking at individual students is
whether or not you have a representative sample. My experience with
Oriental students has been that they try to memorize rather than understand,
but I freely admit that this may just have been the sample that I had. I do
not have specific data on Chinese vs other nationalities.

My point is that the conclusion is not proven, and is more likely a
hypothesis that the lectures were effective. One has to test them the same
way we have tested our students and also look at other factors that are
involved. If the Chinese students read the text and study 3x longer than
the American students, that could be a large factor.

There certainly are social factors involved in learning. But what if
Chinese students were given an IE course would they do even better? I don't
think this experiment has been done.

Only surface anecdotal evidence has been presented to say that lectures are
more effective for Chinese students. A firm conclusion needs a study.

It is very easy to draw conclusion based on surface evidence. Many people
believe that colds are caused by being cold. But when studies are done on
colds there is little correlation with the temperature. Certainly colds and
other diseases spread more in the winter, but that is due to people being
shut in and closer together which spreads more germs. In parts of the
country where smoky coal or wood stoves are used, the fumes can irritate the
lungs and nasal passages, and might contribute to getting more colds.

The superiority of Chinese students could be because only best are coming
into your class, and China'a large population means that there will be a
larger number of best students.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX


I don/t knos how much experrience JC has had with Chinese
students; mine
have outperforned their American Counterparts by many grade levels
Regards,
Jack

"Trust me. I have a lot of experience at this."
General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley




On Wed, 3 Aug 2011, John Clement wrote:

But how does she know that they were really engaged and
learned well? Just
observing a lecture does not tell you what is going on in
the minds of the
students. This is one of the problems with what people
believe. You have
to pre and posttest to see what has actually happened and
not rely on what
you see. Chinese students are certainly more polite and
out of respect
would try to appear attentive, but this does not show what
processing was
actually going on. They will appear attentive even when no
significant
processing is going on. American students will let you
know if they are
bored.


John M. Clement
Houston, TX



A friend of mine visited a school in China and she was very
impressed
how the students were fully engaged during lectures.
She tried to use the same lesson for her students, but it did
not work.



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Forum for Physics Educators
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_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l