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Re: [Phys-l] Retention: tail wags dog



The rule used to be 90%. I suspect 87% is like saying $99.99 for the cost instead of $100. Its meant to obfuscate.

The real reason behind a retention % is "follow the money". It is possible that the number is a specific projected profit margin target.

My question is about realistic expectations. Admission standards in the for profits are virtually non-existent. I have openly told the school that "retention begins with recruitment".

These are the students who may have dropped out of HS, and have bought into the belief that they can possibly make $40K instead of minimum wage. Often they are part of a state/federal work retraining program. They receive stipends for support in addition to tuition LOANS. Because of the default rate, the for profits are in deep trouble with Congress. US backed student loans default to the student NOT the college!

Generally, the for profits run small class sizes. My physics class is the largest I've taught there, with 19. I have had as low as ONE, when it was a graduating last semester student and the college wanted them as a positive statistic.

The community colleges keep class size small by having the classroom instructor run the lab section for the same students and limiting that to 20-25 for safety and equipment reasons.

My question is: Does anybody know of a study or of their own campus numbers for courses that yields plots of first day of class enrollment vs course completion numbers (regardless of grade)? Karl

Note: The for profits have their own accreditation organization to which they answer. The solution to course difficulty is dumbing down the course with the help of textbook publishers by finding a dumber text. The most recent college algebra adoption ENDS with the quadratic equation solution...

Quoting Marty Weiss <martweiss@comcast.net>:

David has a good point. Does the 87% rule apply to all classes regardless of enrollment numbers?

What makes 87 a magic number? Why not 85% or 80%?


On Jul 20, 2011, at 7:09 PM, David Marx wrote:

Hi All:

I do not find anything wrong with this requirement per class for larger classes. When I teach large
sections, I have a maximum of 85 students. I've never had more then 3 or 4 drop such classes, so
having 11 students dropping a course would be a good indicator that something is wrong.

On the other hand, if I had a class with 5 students and 1 dropped, then I would be in trouble according
to this rule.

John, if only our students could retain 87% of course material...

Cheers,
David


On 20 Jul 2011 at 15:58, John Denker wrote:

On 07/20/2011 03:09 PM, Marty Weiss wrote:
I think he means 87% of the students who started the class will finish it.

Aha. I get it now. Thanks.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, "Instructor Responsibility"
supposedly had something to do with retention of knowledge.

Silly me.
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l


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_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l

_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l