Re: [Phys-l] Intelligent designists fight back

[Monsieur et Madame Vieuxbouc <martweiss@earthlink.net>]

No, I understand perfectly well what you are saying.  There's no 
disagreement at all.  

   You are writng about the teacher made exam in a subject which, of 
course, is graded by the teacher for the final grade.  That teacher can 
grade it any way he/she wants to.   (Actually to be fair to all, he 
can't grade it on some arbitrary scale unless he wants to open himself 
to a lawsuit by a parent whose child answers all the questions, and the 
other child gets away with not being counted for those he objects to. 
But that's a topic for another different thread.)      But, my point is 
that at some point in the student's middle or high school career he or 
she is confronted with a state test which is based on the standards set 
out by the state.    The student has no choice but to answer those 
questions regarding evolution or cosmology or any other concepts which 
the student (and the parents) seem to object to.   (If there was a state 
health test I'm sure they would object to the questions on sex education 
or reproductive system.)  

    What I said was the student has no choice and cannot write on the 
test "I object to these questions."  So, most of them just answer these 
questions and quickly forget about it.  Now, if the student is bright 
enough, he can guess and probably get a lot of them right.   Maybe, 
maybe not.  In either case the standards are there (unless the forces of 
creationism have usurped the state boe which was the case a few years 
ago in Kansas and what they tried to do in PA.)  and the questions are 
there.   And teachers have no access to these state tests other than to 
distribute them and to collect them at the end.


Marty



Jack Uretsky wrote:

> Hi all-
> 	We are clearly talking about two different things, which is the 
> best way that I know of to have a really unreasolvable disagreement.
> When I teach in a public school, my final grade is determined on the basis 
> of tests that I create from scratch.  The course content conforms, 
> generally, to the course description in the school catalogue.
> 	A couple of times during a student's elementary school career the 
> student may be faced with a state administered (not merely 'mandated') 
> test.  That test score does not, in any jurisdiction of which I am aware,
> affect the student's final grade in any course, but does affect the state 
> evaluation of the school.  That is the test that is delivered under seal.
> 	If anyone knows of specific, identifiable exceptions to the 
> foregoing, I would be pleased to learn about them.  The operative words in 
> the last sentence are "specific" and "identifiable".
> 					Regards,
> 						Jack
>
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Monsieur et Madame Vieuxbouc wrote:
>
>  
>
> > I don't know nor have I ever heard of any state mandated test that is
> > graded or even touched by an individual teacher.  In fact, if a teacher
> > so much as opens or breaks the seal on the test he will be fired and the
> > school is in deep trouble, as happened a few years ago in the city where
> > I used to teach.
> > It is the same in every state of which I am aware.  The tests are sealed
> > and the folder they are in is sealed and the whole thing is sent to an
> > independent contractor for grading by machine.  Writing samples are
> > taken to the independent contractor which hires retired teachers to read
> > and grade the writing essays.
> >
> > Marty
> >
> > Jack Uretsky wrote:
> >
> >    
> >
> > > Hi all-
> > > 	Even though there are some state-mandated standards, a state
> > > cannot control a public-school teacher's grading of a test.  So, see
> > > below:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >      
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >    
>
>