Re: [Phys-l] [ncnaapt] another crackpot idea from the California legislative assembly

[David Schuster <david.schuster@wmich.edu>]

As Boris Korsunsky said on physlrnr, this idea does not sound 'obviously ridiculous' to him, nor to Charles I think, nor to me. I'm not sure the roadway piezo-electric proposal can be dismissed simply by appeal to 'conservation of energy', without considering the various energy transformations involved, both with and without the roadway piezo-electric transducers in place.  Let's assume that some energy is normally dissipated as 'heat' in the roadway anyway as cars pass over it and deform it slightly. If some of this were to generate energy in piezo-electric transducers instead, then energy remains conserved, just in a more usable form now, without requiring more energy from the car. The roadway would not get as warm presumably? Of course I know nothing of the details or mechanism of the proposed system so correct me if I am missing something, but I'm just conserving energy without taking more from the car.
David
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David Schuster, Physics Department and Mallinson Institute for Science Education, Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo, MI 49008, USA.  Tel: +1 269 387-5844   Email: david.schuster@wmich.edu

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernard Cleyet" <bernardcleyet@redshift.com>

Don't need to do any detailed analysis.  All one need do is accept** Nöther's theorem WRT time symmetry, i.e. conservation of energy.  If one is obtaining electrical energy from an automobile one is obviously getting it from it's gasoline.  There is no other source.

On 2011, Feb 26, , at 16:23, egonjoe wrote:

...> I hate to jump in and get over my head, but the idea is based on the assumption that the cars are going to be on the road anyway.  Isn't the devil in the details?..
   
> Happy analysis,
> Charles Jordan

> On Feb 26, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Bernard Cleyet wrote:
>
> > Comments/questions on AB 306 (Gatto): Energy: piezoelectric transducers: study 
> > This bill would require the Energy Commission to conduct research on the feasibility of generating electricity using piezoelectric transducers under major roadways as a renewable resource, by collaborating with the Department of Transportation to establish a pilot project that would employ piezo-based energy harvesting technology. The bill would allow the Energy Commission to expend the moneys in the Alternative and Renewable Fuel and Vehicle Technology Fund, upon appropriation by the Legislature, to implement this research as part of the Alternative and Renewable Fuel and Vehicle Technology Program. The Energy Commission would be required to report its findings in the integrated energy policy report adopted in 2013. These provisions would be repealed on January 1, 2015.
> >
> > my post:
> > The proponents of this suggested method, evidently, aren't physicists. Physicists know that this is not a source of energy, but just a transfer of energy from gasoline that powers the vehicle to electricity in the roadway device. Such a method will decrease the efficiency of the vehicle by increasing the rolling friction. Think about it by answering the question, why do under inflated tires reduce fuel mileage, and visa versa?
> >
> > bc
> >
> > bc forgot to add: using gasoline to generate electricity directly would be more efficient than this crackpot method!
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