Re: [Phys-l] Purpose of education. Was: Re: Kozol fasts to protest NCLB - defense of unions

[Bernard Cleyet <bernardcleyet@redshift.com>]

And I'm not surprised.

The "bc doesn't think so." refers to: purpose to produce productive 
members, NOT an argument to pay teachers more *.

I think Webster was referring to schools, which at the time was 
elementary.  After elementary, production, as in the trades, applies.  
Tho at that time apprenticing was the dominant method.  Here's an 
interesting trivium:  Governor Edmund G. (Pat) Brown [father of 
moonbeam] didn't go to law school; he read law at a firm, i.e. was an 
apprentice.   So I was told by a municipal court judge, no less.  
According to Wiki, I'm very wet.

bc

* I suspect teachers (school) is considerably more effective than the 
police in ensuring good order.

Jack Uretsky wrote:

> 	I thought it was too narrow.  Perhaps the problem is an 
> underappreciation of the limitations of written (e-mail) communication.
>  	I have no idea what bc is trying to say.
> 				Regards,
> 					Jack
>
>
> On Fri, 21 Sep 2007, Rick Tarara wrote:
>
>  
>
> > Both Bernard and Jack seem to have a particular restrictive ideas as to what
> > 'to be a productive member of society' means.  Nothing that has been offered
> > in response is inconsistent with being a productive member.   One who is not
> > socialized into the society won't be productive.  Producing productive
> > citizens is far from trivial.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bernard Cleyet" <bernardcleyet@redshift.com>
> >    
> >
> > > According to Webster [1822],  Education:  "... a wise and liberal system
> > > of police *, by which property, and life, and the peace of society are
> > > secured."
> > >
> > > "For the umpteenth time, the only reason for tax-payer supported education
> > > is to produce productive members of the society."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > * an argument for paying them more than half police pay?
> > >
> > > bc doesn't think so.
> > >
> > > p.s. Living w/ a kinder / first grade teacher * has convinced me
> > > socialization is an important purpose;  remember the book?
> > >
> > > All I Really Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten is a book of short
> > > essays <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essay> by Robert Fulghum
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Fulghum>, first published in 1986
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986>.
> > >
> > > In Sweden children are not enrolled 'till they can read, so I was told
> > > by a mother.  Much socialization will be complete by then.
> > >
> > >
> > > * She quit sixth after a year, w/ the comment the behaviour was no
> > > longer age appropriate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack Uretsky wrote:
> > >
> > >      
> > >
> > > > This sounds to me like a fundamentalist (I'm confident that Rick
> > > > is not a fundamentalist) trivialization of the purpose of public
> > > > education.
> > > >        
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >    
>
>