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Re: [Phys-L] [**External**] Re: More blood Re: disinformation

- You keep drawing attention away from the central issue.
- Please, let me see you address head-on the issue about the degree to which you are responsible to perform objective research designed to maximally defend those you care about against the ravages of autism.

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On Jan 29, 2020, at 4:09 PM, brian whatcott <> wrote:


I am not a climatologist. Should I do my own objective research, read 50 books on the topic possibly - before accepting the global warming hypothesis?
I am not a brilliant or even a mediocre physicist, by the way, just as you would probably agree you are not an epidemiologist.

Brian W
p.s. I DO know how 'endemic' is defined - and that's something!

On 1/29/2020 12:38 PM, Bill Norwood via Phys-l wrote:
Brian Whatcott,
- Yes, I have studied and worked roughly 1000 hours on the vaccine problem, and I readily admit that I do not know it all.
- Even the producers of the documentary for which I wrote the transcript, which involves several board-certified physicians as well as an array of other highly qualified specialists, virtually admit via an add-on that their documentary does not “know it all.”
- It does not suggest a know-it-all attitude on my part to push persons hard to do their own objective research.
- There do exist some middle-of-the-roadies who urge us not to be stupid about this. For example, if your child was sick before the last time he got vaccinated and he got even sicker after the vaccination, make sure he is well before you take him in for his next shot. Of course the ordinary parent with the ordinary backdrop of “vaccines are safe” can be stupid only on hindsight,
- As for your numbers (2 in 100,000, 20 in 100,000 etc) they are not usable because there cannot be a consensus about incidence/prevalence
- You cannot intellectualize your way out of the responsibility to do your homework in the interest of persons you care about.
- Through the decades, while you guys were slugging away at becoming the brilliant physicists who you are, I was including layman-level study of physical and mental health because of multigenerational incidence.
- One result of this is that, while I am not strong in physics, I do understand more than the average person how the mind and body work. This comes from reading about 70 books written by doctors smart enough to write books.
- Note: In my fourth paragraph the word “roadies” should be replaced with the word “readers.” I am just getting started on this iPhone and find myself unable to make the correction.
Thanks, Brian for contributing to the discussion.
Bill Norwood

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On Jan 28, 2020, at 5:16 PM, brian whatcott <> wrote:

There is a tendency on the part of a physics student to get the "I know better 'cos I've studied hard" virus.
This is particularly likely when they learn that people can and do die from vaccinations.

Physicians are aware that what they prescribe is often poisonous in sufficient quantity. They order multiple CAT scans when they know that they can each deliver a year of natural X-radiation (or did in the recent past), for example. Their mindset is more, "The smallest harm for the greatest good ".

If an epidemiologist finds that the death rate from some hypothetical vaccine is 12 per 100,000 and the death rate for the target disease is 120 per 100,000 among un-vaccinated populations, but the death rate for vaccinated populations is 20 per hundred thousand including 8 per 100,000 exposed to the illness and 12 per 100,000 who though unexposed, died from the vaccine; what should the controlling authority do?

Or in the case of autonomous cars it can happen that an optimal design may select a crash scenario that kills three innocent bystanders, in order to avoid a wrong-way car with five passengers.

The ethical concerns are real. And physics teachers should grasp the nettle.

Brian W

On 1/28/2020 12:12 PM, Bill Norwood via Phys-l wrote:
Philip Keller,
- There are two great longings on the part of a person confronted with an issue as complex and controversial as this one:
1. The first is that no person he or she cares about will be negatively affected by the illness being argued about.
2. The second is that he or she will be able to find some easy out one-liner that will relieve him or her of the responsibility of investing major time and work doing a large amount of research. Hence the appeal of trusting others to do the work.
- Philip, you have amply displayed here the second longing.
Bill Norwood


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On Jan 28, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Daniel MacIsaac via Phys-l <> wrote:

Tactfully put. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Dan M

On Jan 28, 2020, at 10:59, Philip Keller via Phys-l <> wrote:

Time is limited and the internet is vast. So it is reasonable to consider
the source of information before you invest 40 hours studying "both sides".
I am not making an ad hominem argument. But I am also not discarding the
value of peer review and the scientific community.

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:05 AM Bill Norwood via Phys-l <> wrote:

- What you have just written again makes it evident that you have not done
your homework as I had urged.
- I could go on for a week or more answering your specific questions or
challenging your specific mal-assertions one at a time, while, if you had
done your homework you would have saved us both a lot of time and work.
- Again: there are no shortcuts.
- Of course my bias is obvious, but my main message is that one should
thoroughly self-inform on both sides of the issue, then decide for
him/herself where the truths must lie.
- Be suspicious of anyone who opposes or pulls you away from, an objective
search for an array of truths. What would they have to lose?
- By the way, it seems that the best way to find my autism transcript is
to do a search on just, “Billy D. Norwood.”
- Among the mostly personal snooping hits and anti-tobacco hits, and other
autism hits, one will find two hits about my transcript of the documentary,
Autism: Made in the USA.
Thanks for reading.
Bill Norwood

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On Jan 27, 2020, at 11:37 PM, bernard cleyet <> wrote:

On 2020/Jan/27, at 09:26, John Denker via Phys-l <> wrote:
The anti-vaxxers have blood on their hands. Lots of it.
The “down” side of the first amendment.

bc, … also wishes money was not speech.

[1] "In many ways, vaccines are a victim of their own success. Years
ago, people were intimately familiar with the suffering caused by diseases
such as polio, whooping cough and measles. Today, they’ve been virtually
eliminated — along with the memory of their terrible effects. As a result,
generations of parents have grown up 'more likely to be scared of the
vaccine than the disease,' said Paul Offit, …"

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