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Re: [Phys-l] How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions - Response to Haim #2



Who do you think is going to the elite schools? Not very many of those who cannot afford to escape. Sadly, the elite school attendees also want to bankrupt the public schools by getting a voucher for having walked away.

My larger beef is that those who leave the public education system, then want a rebate and their own set of rules. That is where I jumped in. If you want to pull your kids out of public school, that's your option, but have the decency to live by the same rules you insist need to exist for the public sector. If you think that mandatory testing is OK for public schools, don't ask me to let your kids (or their teachers) off the hook. Those standard tests compel the "unselected" to do extra preparation for the test, as well as covering the mandated topics. In the private sector no such rules exist, so the teacher can teach what is on the college entrance exam instead. Or, if the next level is another PRIVATE school, maybe testing has been forgiven because it is unnecessary.

If you want a level playing field, then prove to me you haven't "purchased" a passing grade, and purchased the introductions to the next level of privatization at the college. Karl

Quoting "LaMontagne, Bob" <RLAMONT@providence.edu>:

I have no idea how to respond to that. I thought we were talking about assessing urban schools versus elite schools. Where did "white collar" come from? Marty had stated that only 10% care enough even to show up for parent-teacher conferences - I assume he is talking about urban schools. That 10% could certainly benefit by receiving a voucher that would allow them to afford ("white collar" can already afford this") to go to a real school instead of an institution. We are talking about benefitting blue collar here - or at least I was. Your knee-jerk class warfare response was inappropriate and off the mark.

Bob at PC

-----Original Message-----
From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu [mailto:phys-l-
bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf Of
trappe@physics.utexas.edu
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 3:29 PM
To: Forum for Physics Educators
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions -
Response to Haim #2

They are NOT TRAPPED by anything but their white collar greed..., ie,
saying that they need to be reimbursed or they won't participate is
nonsense. They are already participating. They just want a write-off
for doing what they are choosing to do.

Quoting "LaMontagne, Bob" <RLAMONT@providence.edu>:

> If vouchers work only for the 10% who show up at parent conferences
> then by all means let's give them the vouchers. Why trap them in
> institutional settings with the other 90%.
>
> Bob at PC
>
> ________________________________________
> From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
> [phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf Of Marty Weiss
> [martweiss@comcast.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 12:57 PM
> To: Forum for Physics Educators
> Subject: Re: [Phys-l] How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions
> - Response to Haim #2
>
> On Jan 27, 2011, at 12:08 PM, trappe@physics.utexas.edu wrote:
>
>>
>> This is especially true if anyone in the crowd mumbles the word
>> "VOUCHERS" for the schools who "don't need to prove their
>> accountability because they are inherently superior".
>
> Vouchers is another joke foisted on the public by politicians who
> have no clue as to what really goes on in the typical public school.
> The places where vouchers would be pushed are the inner city
> schools. The parents and students from these schools accepting
> vouchers to a nearby private school would be the 10% who showed up
> for parent conferences. The rest would still be in the inner city
> school struggling with just getting there on a daily basis, leaving
> these schools worse off than before. So, the politicians and
> others, ignorant of the daily life of teachers and students in the
> inner city, say, "Close the failing schools and send the students
> to better schools and charters." Another joke... leopards don't
> change their spots. What makes anyone think that just because these
> students would be moved to another school their life styles would
> change and they would suddenly be transformed into model students?
> And, what makes these politicians think that teachers who work in
> charters and private schools without the safety nets of tenure and
> regular working hours can handle all comers? The dirty little
> secret of charters and private schools is that they can, and do,
> kick out students who are unruly or cannot (or will not) do the
> work. Oh, they claim that nothing of the sort happens, but the
> reason it is so rare is that they accept only those who fit in, in
> the first place: those who will wear the uniforms, those who will
> show up every day on time, and those whose parents will show up for
> meetings and sign the pledge to help their kids learn. The squeaky
> clean image of charters and private schools is fraying as more
> students and parents buy into the hype. This dirty secret came to
> light recently in Philadelphia where students from a charter school
> and a nearby parochial school got into a brawl near the subway
> station close to both schools. And, what caused this brawl involving
> several dozen charter and parochial high school students? The
> UNIFORMS the charter students have to wear! The charter students
> claimed the others made fun of their uniforms! It seems the colors
> and "cut" of uniforms became the new excuse to have an old-fashioned
> street-war. Several participants were kicked out of their "elite
> schools" and where did they go? Back to their neighborhood high
> schools!
>
> Marty
>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Forum for Physics Educators
> Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
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> _______________________________________________
> Forum for Physics Educators
> Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
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>



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