Re: [Phys-l] Historical trivium

[Marty Weiss <martweiss@comcast.net>]

On Nov 20, 2010, at 9:32 PM, LaMontagne, Bob wrote:

> Please remember he is talking about New Jersey drivers. The rest of the world has the incoming traffic yield to the cars on the rotary.

Jersey, Shmersey...   The rest of the world doesn't have 8 million people in 8000 sq. mi. with probably 10 million cars!  

Incoming traffic will yield only so much.  The unwritten rule here is that you should wait at the edge of the circle, then poke into the traffic when you spot a small break.  If you stop for too long the people behind you will start honking their horns. So, if the traffic in the circle is slow enough you have to go quickly on any break between cars.  But, once you go you are committed so you now have to edge in and get to the inside or outside quickly.  If you know you want to go out at the very next quarter turn you have to get to the outside at once or else you are stuck in limbo.    Most of the time it's easier to nose in on the outside and stay there even if you have to go all the way around.  

> When I was in Bermuda, they had a quaint sign that said "the person on the roundabout has the straightaway".
>
> Rotaries sure beat traffic lights - drivers are better at negotiating right of way than lights are.

I don't think so.   Circles are good only for those drivers who are quick, sure, and not afraid to go when they see a break.  With lights you will go only on green:  it's a given for the kid in the Mustang, Granny in the Volvo, or the average Joe.  Most major intersections here now have left turn lanes with left turn signals (a green arrow), so that fear is gone.  So, even granny with her old Corolla or the eighty year old in his Buick Regal can negotiate signaled intersections safely, but put them in a circle and you're asking for trouble.   


> The only thing better are high capacity fly-overs and ramps - but they are expensive.  

That's what they are putting in more and more of here... sure beats the circle mentality!   The engineering is pretty elaborate when you Google map some of the completed ones.   
 
> Also 4-way stop signs beat lights.

They work up to a point.  For country roads and some suburban streets it works fine.  But in the city?  WOW!  If each driver senses what the other is doing, and the intersection is not too heavily travelled they work nicely.  Once you get a line up at each stop you get the second or third driver sneaking into the traffic.  I've seen it a thousand times:  everybody stops.  One guy starts out slowly, then the next one right on his tail.  two cars, then probably the third one may start out when the first car in the cross street starts out and a near collision results with each driver cursing at the other and horns blaring. Until someone comes to his senses and stops going on each stop.  And, that's not in Jersey... that's in Philly, NYC,  and Boston, and a hundred other cities.  

> It's amazing how people can figure things out for themselves without the heavy hand of government.

If they didn't have these controls on traffic, people wouldn't know what to do.  That's why we have speed limits, red-green signals, turn signals on cars, and all the other stuff the government mandates.  Everyone complains about the cops and speed-traps... "Why aren't you out catching crooks?"  But, just wait until some kid in a Mustang blasts by you at 85 on the freeway, and then it's,  "Why didn't that cop stop him?"   (Oh, the cop was laid off because of budget cut-backs.)  
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