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Re: [Phys-l] Textbook selection time again ...& HW Services

I have used Webassign for many years with many different books and have used Mastering Physics once with Knight's algebra based text about 18 months ago. Some of my opinions are colored by my much greater experience with webasdign

I find webassign, for the most part, very intuitive. Originated by physics faculty, it is designed they way we tend to think. It was designed as a homework delivery system, and is gradually having features added that make tutorial style exercises possible. It is very easy to generate your own problems, strating with existing problem prototypes. Karen Cummings once made the comment "I don't know Perl, but I can copy and modify other peoples problems easily."

In Mastering Physics I felt like I had entered a corn maze on a cloudy night. Their skill building problems are great--it was designed as a tutorial system, and seems to have added homework problems as a secondary feature. I use a Mac and at the time there were no cross-platform tools available that I could use.

User support is outstanding in Webassign. Any time I have had a problem it has been fixed in less than 24 hours. Support takes longer (or did) for Mastering Physics.

Mastering Physics has skill building problems that seem very effective (only one quarter's experience, I cannot comment further) In navigating a problem, if a student makes a mistake, MP leads him/ her down different roads depending on where a mistake might be made. As a tutorial this is very powerful, in trying to print out the problem this is very confusing. Trying to write such problems on my own seems like a daunting task, but I was never able to try on my Mac. Webassign is growing capabilities that allow somewhat similar type tutorial problems, ones that I can consider writing, but they are not yet as slick and polished.

I found MP's palette for entering symbolic equations extremely fussy compared with WA's.

WA has a current feature that requires students to enter a unit with an answer (NOT choose it from a palette). I liked this better than MP's approach. WA is gradually adding some of the features that Mike mentions for MP, but they are not built in to the problems that most textbooks have coded.

Let me know if you want to see any of the WA problems that I have written, ranging from numeric through Maple-evaluated symbolic ones. If you DO write some of your own problems, they are yours forever, even if you switch texts. MP is proprietary to one publisher, so if you switch from them you have to abandon anything learned in MP.

Vern




On Apr 16, 2009, at 8:41 PM, Michael Meyer wrote:

Robert -

I use both systems extensively. Here are the highlights of each for me:

WebAssign has an easier to use, faster, and more flexible gradebook than MP. It's easy to import and export scores from other soureces. It's much easier to extend deadlines, add extra submissions, etc. It's great for assigning straight up end-of chapter problems and/or writing quick and easy multiple choice or essay questions of your own. It used to have EOC problems for many textbooks - but this seems to be more limited as more and more texts have their own homework systems. You can either have students sign up and pay individually or register them yourself and have them bill your institution.

On the downside, the cost for using WebAssign depends on the text you use, and varies widely, but you can arrange a "package" through text publishers, which helps some. Also somewhat annoying is that Webassign's standard is most often to grade any answer within 1% of the expected answer as correct. This sometimes means students have to answer problems which have data given with 2 sig figs with a 3 sig fig answer. This creates confusion. I have been very unimpressed with the "Enhanced" content from WebAssign, at least for the texts I've used (Serway and Walker).

MP has, in addition to the end of chapter problems, GREAT Skill Builder and other extra, very rich problems. They're not just "plug and chug" - they include things like ranking tasks and problems where you have to drag and drop vectors. I don't think it's possible to get these problems correct without really understanding some relationships--though they take more time than typical problems. These problems have richer hints and built-in feedback...feedback on EOC problems is comparable to WebAssign.

In MP students HAVE to buy access through them and HAVE to register themselves for your course. (You can't set the roster.) You can set grading VERY flexiblity - taking points away for getting hints (or not), and setting deadlines that are "soft"; credit starts diminishing at the deadline but takes 24 hours to go away entirely.

MP tracks the average time taken and difficulty rating for each problem (including EOC problems) both nationally and for your class. This makes putting together homework assignments of a proper length and difficulty much easier. You can also very easily see distributions of how much time your student actually are spending, and where they're spending their time.

MP's gradebook is very slow with larger classes/many assignments, but does a nice job of highlighting students who didn't finish assignments and are struggling. It's easy to export, but difficult to import scores.

I use MP for my classes where I'm trying to push deeper understanding. In cases where the curriculum requires I fly through lots of topics, I use WebAssign. If you have other questions about specific areas I didn't touch on, let me know.

Mike Meyer
Lecturer/Lab Coordinator
Michigan Tech Univ.
mrmeyer@mtu.edu




----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert W. Arts" <rarts@pc.edu>
To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:34:53 PM GMT -05:00 Columbia
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Textbook selection time again ...& HW Services

Along the same line....

We've used the HW Service at UT Austin (now Quest) for the last 7 years or so and are considering moving to either Mastering Physics or WebAssign. Does anyone have experience using both systems that would like to share a compare and contrast? I know that I'm leaning more towards WebAssign since Mastering Physics will not allow students to print an entire assignment at one time...only problem by problem...which I find inconvenient.

Regards, Robert.

______________________________
Robert W. Arts,Ph.D.
Professor of Education & Physics
Pikeville College
147 Sycamore Street
Pikeville, KY 41501
Office: (606) 218-5476
Email: rarts@pc.edu
URL: http://campus.pc.edu/~rarts

________________________________

From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu on behalf of Rauber, Joel
Sent: Thu 4/16/2009 4:15 PM
To: Forum for Physics Educators
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Textbook selection time again ...



We are intending on using the option. However, our information is that $25 only gives one volume (paperback) version of the text. So a typical 2 semester course with print version of the book and webassign will cost students $100

(though they will have the option of sticking with the e-version, at $50)

It still seems like a pretty good deal, particularly since we think Tipler is a reasonable book. So we are adopting it. (This time next year I may be singing a different tune.)

_________________________

Joel Rauber, Ph.D
Professor and Acting Head of Physics
Department of Physics
South Dakota State University
Brookings, SD 57007
Joel.Rauber@sdstate.edu
605.688.5428


-----Original Message-----
From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu [mailto:phys-l-
bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf Of Folkerts, Timothy J
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:40 PM
To: Forum for Physics Educators
Subject: [Phys-l] Textbook selection time again ...

Once again, it is time to select textbooks for next year.

Since I teach both algebra-based and calc-based general physics, and
since Serway has a text with both versions, I had been using his text.

However, my textbook rep told me recently about Tipler now having a $25
eBook + WebAssign, plus an option to buy the regular text for $25
(directly from the publisher, not thru the local bookstore). See
http://www.whfreeman.com/tiplerWebAssign/ for details.

That seems an amazing bargain - $50 for the regular text (it looks like
the full-year test - not just one semester) AND online resources.
Presumably the students would need to pay $25 for the second semester
of
Online access, but still that is only $75 for the full year, compared
to
~$200 for a typical book.

So ....
* Do any of you use this option or have opinions about Tipler?
* Any other books that you highly recommend?
* What about requiring something like McDermott's Tutorials?
* Do you find the online texts & homework assignments effective for
student learning?


Tim F
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l



_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l