Re: [Phys-l] Energy use (was CFLs)

["Richard Tarara" <rbtarara@sprynet.com>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Bonar" <tempbonar@earthlink.net>

> > From: Rick Tarara <rtarara@saintmarys.edu>
>
> > So...I think we can struggle to a 25% savings--but I find 50% far fetched.
>
> I can agree with your numbers but I'd be interesting in hearing what you 
> make of them.  Do you mean to imply that beyond this 25% our energy use is 
> non-negotiable even in the face of climate change and energy limits?  Or 
> am I missing your tone and you think that we can, should, or will attempt 
> to change our energy usage but we have just reached a point where the 
> usage is too ingrained and the change is too large to be able to pull it 
> off?
> _______________________________________________
You have it about right--once we maximize efficiency and do the few 
'socially acceptable' steps in conservation, then the next step (to reduce 
energy) involves some cultural changes that are rather invasive.  I've seen 
people here suggesting taking the cars away--not just encouraging efficiency 
and conservative driving.  Three hundred million people hanging their 
clothes outside to dry is a pure vision of a 'third world country'.  Been 
there, seen it!  Besides, with home ownership being ripped out of the grasp 
of millions, where do you hang these clothes when you live in an 
apartment...in urban Chicago, New York, Boston?  I've seen numbers 
suggesting that busses are worse than individual cars for 
energy/greenhouse....but maybe that can be remedied with hydrogen fueled 
busses that are jammed full of people--like Tokyo subways.  But then where 
would these people be going?  What are the jobs in the socialistic society 
some here seem to be advocating?  Redistribution of the wealth didn't work 
too well in the Soviet Union and it would seem the communist countries that 
are doing well are doing so by embracing at least some aspects of 
Capitalism.  But can capitalism work without capitalists?  [Don't know if 
Finland qualifies as one of the socialist strongholds some list member seem 
to love, but I just watched a program where one of the major industries in 
that country is building enormous Cruise Ships.  Seems unlikely that Cruise 
Ships fit in well to future visions being bandied about here.  What then 
will the Finns do to replace those billions?]

Bottom line (political philosophy aside), huge decreases in energy use will 
be very difficult in countries like the U.S. without real (at very least 
widely perceived) reductions in living standards.  That is my take--the 
25-30% reduction range can be done, some pain and sacrifice (anybody here do 
weekly grocery shopping for a family of 4 or 5 by bus?) on the conservation 
end, but overall maintaining more or less current 'standards'.  Beyond that, 
the 'American way of life' will have to take a big hit.  That may be 'for 
the good' overall, but it will not be perceived that way by many (or most) 
which will make it even more difficult to achieve.

Rick

Richard W. Tarara
Professor of Physics
Department of Chemistry & Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556