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Re: [Phys-l] Intelligent designists fight back



Ludwik,

"Being governed by Newton's laws" certainly does not imply "not chaotic." Most lab examples of chaotic dynamics are governed by and can be understood using Newton's Laws. What you saw with the four star system is an example of what is called "Hamiltonian chaos."

Furthermore, using stars that have roughly the same mass, that have finite size, and that can collide and dissipate energy in the process, it's not merely *possible* to predict the end state that you saw; you can be virtually *certain* that something like that will happen. Other end states are possible: 1) A three star body orbiting a one star body, 2) a two star body orbiting a one star body with another one escaping, 3) one body orbiting another with two bodies escaping (and possibly orbiting themselves). But one can be virtually certain in such a case that the Hamiltonian chaos stage will not continue forever.

John Mallinckrodt
Cal Poly Pomona

On Jan 10, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Ludwik Kowalski wrote:

I was also thinking about difficulties in extrapolation while
simulating consequences of a disturbance imposed on a four stars
system. The initial situation was simple; four identical stars
revolving on the same circle. Then one star is moved suddenly into a
region where the field is less strong (along the radius of the circle).
That destroyed simplicity and motion started to look chaotic. But it
was not chaotic because everything was still governed by Newton's laws.
There were no randomness in simulation, except due to the finite number
of digits used in each calculation. Then my wife asked me to do do
something. When I came back, more than ten minutes later, the motion
was simple again -- two pairs of stars were created (each pair being a
single star). Each pair was revolving along an elliptical (nearly
circular orbit). And two elliptical trajectories had essentially the
same focal point -- r(min) of one orbit and r(min) of another orbit
were occurring at essentially the same time.

It would be impossible to predict something like this (transformation
of complexity into simplicity) by watching what was going on on my
screen during the first minute or so. And here is another illustration.
Is a segment of a trajectory, seen on my screen, part of a straight
line or is it part of a very very very long ellipse? I am using the
I.P. again. The program was designed by an intelligent designer who
used a theory d by Newton. But it simulates a system governed by laws
of nature. I was really surprised by the outcome of evolution displayed
on my screen.
P.S.
I can reproduce what was observed this morning by running the program
again. That would be impossible if randomness was involved.