Re: [Phys-l] Physics First

[Jack Uretsky <jlu@hep.anl.gov>]

Hi all-
	IMO longitudinal data is vital in making such a decision.  In this 
connection, the possibility that has not been given (much) considerattion 
is that it really doesn't make much difference.
	Some support for the "no difference" possibility comes from the 
expeerience at MIT back in the '40's.  At that time part of the entering
freshman class came from the elite New England preparatory schools which 
taught calculus - preparation that was not available to most of the 
student body.  Freshman at MIT took calculus-based introductory physics 
concurrently with a math calculus course.
	As reported to us by one of the Deans, the elite school graduates
benefited for about 1 year from their advanced preparation.  By the second
year the advantage had vanished.
	Maybe it's only teacher vanity that would stress the importance of 
the order of the high school courses, and the level at which they are 
taught.
				Regards,
					Jack



On Fri, 5 May 2006, Michael Edmiston wrote:

> I've written a lot about this before, so I'll try to be brief here.
> Anyone interested in finding more details of the things I've described
> earlier, can check the archives.
>
> Bottom line: "Physics first" is okay if also accompanied by "physics
> last."
>
> * * * Some possible good outcomes...* * *
>
> (1) Only 20% of students nation-wide take "physics last."  The other 80%
> might get zero physics if the current 9th-grade science class is not
> "physical science."  In this case "physics first" gets some physics
> presented to those who would not get any physics at all --- ever.
>
> (2) As mentioned by others, chemistry and biology could take advantage
> of this.  (Will they?)
>
> * * * Some pitfalls... * * *
>
> (3) Many administrators will think, "physics is physics; if we're
> teaching it in 9th grade, we can eliminate the lower-enrollment senior
> course."
>
> (3a) Since any 9th grade science in most states can taught by a teacher
> with license for middle-school science, if "physics" is placed there,
> and the senior course is eliminated, administrators can eliminate the
> physics teacher.  In schools where this happens, the total physics
> curriculum in that school will be taught be a teacher who has taken only
> one college-evel physics course and was probably an education major (and
> not a science major at all) or was perhaps a biology major.
>
> (4) Administrators and guidance counselors sometimes realize that high
> school students wanting to go to engineering schools need senior-level
> physics, but they have routinely assumed students with interest in life
> science, e.g. medical school, need to take extra biology in high school
> and don't need chemistry and senior physics.  The opposite is true.
> Life science, especially medical science, actually requires more
> rigorous chemistry and physics than biology.  Those students coming to
> college with medical aspirations and whose HS counselors steered them
> into more biology (and not physics) pay the price in college of getting
> poorer grades in college chemistry and physics, and therefore hurt their
> GPA and chances for med school.  We have seen this over and over again.
> Thinking their physics is done because they took "physics first" will
> exacerbate this problem.
>
> * * * A semi-neutral comment... * * *
>
> (5) If there is presently a "physical science" course being taught as
> 9th-grade science, then "physics first" is nothing but educational
> buzzword hoopla.  The traditional 9th-grade physical science class
> that's been taught for decades essentially *is* physics first.  That
> doesn't mean it couldn't be taught better.  But when it is taught well
> it is what the "physics first" advocates say we need, yet we've had it
> all along.
>
>
> Michael D. Edmiston, Ph.D.
> Professor of Physics and Chemistry
> Bluffton University
> Bluffton, OH 45817
> (419)-358-3270
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Forum for Physics Educators
> Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
> https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l

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