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[Phys-L] Re: (German grammar, delete if uninterested)



My German is 25 years rusty, but at the time I managed to get a major in
the language, and felt quite comfortable using it, although it's not my
mother tongue.

Since I'm no longer so comfortable in the language, I held off awhile,
but here goes:

| Ein Gegenbespiel hat der Wert ein Tausend Bespielen.

Bespiel => Beispiel: Note the typical German prefix "bei", not to be
confused with the typical German prefix "be". ;-)


der Wert => den Wert: German has 4 cases (although fewer are used in
ordinary speech), and the article not only varies with the gender of the
noun but also with the case (and number). Here the formulation "A has
B" requires that "A" be in the nominative (subject) case and "B" be in
the accusative (direct object) case. Here's the matrix:

masculine feminine neuter plural
--------- -------- --------- ----------
Nominative: der Mann die Frau das Kind die
Kinder
Accusative: den Mann die Frau das Kind die
Kinder
Dative : dem Mann der Frau dem Kind den
Kindern
Genitive : des Mannes der Frau des Kindes der
Kinder


ein Tausend Bespielen => (einer) Tausend Bespielen

Masculine or neuter "ein" does indeed become "eines" in the Genitive,
but Tausend is a feminine (singular) noun, so start with "eine" and make
it "einer" for genitive.

So we get the grammatically correct word-for-word translation of the
Anglicism:

Ein Gegenbespiel hat den Wert einer Tausend Bespielen.

But that really does sound like an English expression with German words
swapped in. First I thought of dropping the "einer", using "tausend" as
a modifier of the noun like this:

Ein Gegenbespiel hat den Wert tausend Bespielen.

This feels better, but not quite there yet. A common German
construction that translates "A is worth B" is "A ist (genitive noun
form of B) wert", literally, "A is B worth".

Ein Gegenbespiel ist tausend Bespielen wert.

That's as close as I can get without going back to a grammar book. Any
actual German speakers lurking?

Ken


-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for Physics Educators [mailto:PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu] On
Behalf Of Rauber, Joel
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 5:09 PM
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
Subject: (German grammar, delete if uninterested)

There were two typos, and I'm no expert.

But this is fun, anyone who really knows should chime in:

Amended Deutsch:
Ein Gegenbespiel hat der Wert ein Tausend Bespielen.

Original (with typos corrected)
Ein Gegenbeispiel hat den Wert eines Tausend Beispielen.

My thought was that "Wert" is a masculine accusative object and
therefore the article becomes "den" and

Tausend Beispielen should be the genitive and IIRC (which I may not)
that means ein -> eines, however, Beispielen is plural so perphaps its
eine -> eine???

So perhaps, in my 2-year-old Deutsch

Ein Gegenbeispiel hat den Wert eine Tausend Beispielen.

________________________
Joel Rauber
Department of Physics - SDSU

Joel.Rauber@sdstate.edu
605-688-4293



| -----Original Message-----
| From: Forum for Physics Educators
| [mailto:PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu] On Behalf Of Bernard Cleyet
| Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 3:05 PM
| To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
| Subject: Re: Piaget & Dewey: Down for the Count? - PART 1
|
| Thanks for clarifying my thought.
|
| The problem w/ the German is it's colloquial and only one
| quite fluent would know the "Deutsch". W/ my "baby Deutsch"
| knowledge, Joe's is certainly better. The der makes clear
| Wert is a m noun and not the possible lower case adj. or
| prep. Examples in the dict. indicate an "of" is probably not
| necessary.
|
|
| bc, who wonders if JR is fluent.
|
|
|
| Rauber, Joel wrote:
|
| > |
| > | Amended Deutsch:
| > | Ein Gegenbespiel hat der Wert ein Tausend Bespielen.
| > |
| >
| > Vieleicht, Ein Gegenbeispiel had den Wert eines Tausen
| Beispielen. ??
| >
| > And/und
| >
| > | Yes in SS, psyc, etc., etc., etc. A general statement
| need only be
| > | slaughtered once. If there are exceptions, then the general
| > | statement is False.
| >
| > Did you mean,
| >
| > Except in SS, psyc, etc., etc., etc. A general statement
| need only be
| > slaughtered once. If there are exceptions, then the
| general statement
| > is False.
| >
| > Joel
| >
|
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