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[Physltest] [Phys-L] Re: Math and Physics Teacher partnership?

I don't think there is an answer, either one compromises their "values"
or goes elsewhere, e.g. a private prep. school. In the old days, as I
wrote, those w/ self direction [internalizes their parents wishes] or
still being directed took the preprofessional courses (that's what they
called it in the fifties at Santa Barbara High); the others took trade
courses. I think this thread illustrates the problem w/ democracy; it
ensures the people get no better than they deserve, or, maybe I should
write, get exactly what they deserve.

At present it appears that Webster is correct, "Education is a wise and
liberal form of police by which property and life and peace of society
is secured.", not education.

I can think of a third, not very possible. That teacher, if
charismatic, etc., could organize the instructors so that a strike would
force that dean to resign. [Not bloody likely.] However, remember the
UCB students and FACULTY forced the Regents to change the political
activity rule by shutting down the University. At least one Physics
laurelist was instrumental in this success. All this against the wishes
of the very powerful Senator from Formosa, and owner of the Oakland
Tribune, William F. Knowland.

bc, who answered the substitute teacher feed back form's question, "How
can we assist in making your teaching experience better?", issue us
electric cattle prods.

p.s. curiously here in Salinas [of which Herb Caen wrote, "The only
culture in Salinas is agriculture" -- another wag, in a letter to the
local paper's ed. wrote, in addition to quoting Herb, "... now we have
gang culture ..."] The Hartnell [local Community College] Science /
Math teachers conferenced with their HS counterparts to set stds. for
preparation for Hartnell's courses.

Jack Uretsky wrote:

Hi all-
Bernard apparently assumes that there are only two alternatives -
his, or the Dean's. Not true, Bernard! But I'd still like an answer to
my question.
Regards,
Jack



On Mon, 8 Nov 2004, Bernard Cleyet wrote:



The result of treating students as clients is they get what they want *
. The vast majority of students have too little life experience to know
what they want and what is necessary, and parents too ignorant or
otherwise unwilling to give direction. It's a viscous circle -- why
prepare students well for the science courses if those teachers will do
it for you. Be popular and give C students A's.

I don't know how it is out there now, but when I went to school the
students were streamed, thereby standards were easily maintained.

* Garrett Hardin's favo expression was, "The first law of bio is you
get what you select."

bc

Jack Uretsky wrote:



Hi all-
Well, Daryl's posting is sufficiently conclusive that I feel
compelled to respond. Daryl sez:




If an Honors Physics 11th grade
student walks into my classroom and can't handle the Algebra II or Trig I
that is required to do the basic vector analysis at the beginning of the
course, sorry. See you later.




Well, that's great for you, at your institution. But for Hoi
Polloi, such as I was at College of DuPage, Illinois, that's a great way
to stimulate the Dean's desire to have you go elsewhere.
Similarly, when Daryl sez:




As Physics teachers/professors, our job is simply to teach physics. It
would be nice if we had the time and resources to teach everything, but
ain't happnin'. I see very little argument there. If an Honors Physics
11th grade student walks into my classroom and can't handle the Algebra




II or




Trig I
that is required to do the basic vector analysis at the beginning of the
course, sorry. See you later. By the same token, if an AP 12th grader
walks
in and can't handle the basic Calculus, sorry. I will always help a kid
who
is deficient in the maths and/or point him/her in the direction of a
good
Math teacher who can help. However, if I take time out of my tight
Physics
schedule to teach something that is a basic needed pre-requisite, I'm
defeating myself and, worse, the kids!




I conclude that he must have been living in a teacher's paradise.
The Dean's I have known expect that you will deal with whatever you get in
the classroom, exactly as your fellow, perhaps not very scrupulous
teachers, have done. Your job is to process students according to
schedule, and not make waves. Many of us have taught in tax-supported
schools where the overpriced administrators are primarily concerned with
getting along with the politicians.
So, Daryl, I'd like to hear more about the Utopia where you work
and how you deal with any conflicts arising from your standards of
excellence.
Regards.
Jack




On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Daryl L. Taylor wrote:





It's been a long day. It's been a longer week. Please forgive me if I attack
the 'physics first' statement Scott ends with.

This '...I spend 30% of my curriculum time teaching and reteaching
algebra...' is a touchy topic to most physics teachers, let alone the Math
teachers, I've bumped into across the country. When and where do we end
'math' and where and when do we begin 'physics'. My answer is simple. Teach
physics. Not Math. If the kids can't handle the Math needed, it's on them.
PERIOD.

I have degrees in both Physics and Math. (Got Math 1st, by the by... Moved
into Physics because I could finally see where all that Math was going...)
Have taught both Math and Physics. 28 years. So, before the gripes start,





cut





--
"Trust me. I have a lot of experience at this."
General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley



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