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Re: electric power surplus



NOBODY is saying "absolutely no man-made pollutants"!
Let's stop with the artificial cataclysmic strawmen,
OK? Have you paid ANY attention to the enormous rise
in the rate of childhood asthma in the US? It's
wonderful that you can breath without dropping dead,
but what about those whose health HAS been affected?
Childhood asthma has been directly linked to air
pollution! Ground level ozone levels continue to rise
in many areas of the US (including here in central
NC).

Your arguments sound exactly like those of our
domestic auto producers in the 60s and early 70s. Seat
belts? Clean air standards? Oh my God, you're going to
put us out of business!! In fact, the Federal clean
air and mileage standards very probably saved Detroit
from itself. It forced them to (eventually) make
better cars. The current situation with hybrids is
very similar. Honda and Toyota are getting lots of
design and mfg experience while Detroit lobbies
against higher CAFE standards. And when the next oil
shock comes and people want fuel-sipping cars, Detroit
will get Federal help, either import restrictions,
subsidies, or both because they will not have
competitive products. Barrere--- Bob LaMontagne
<rlamont@POSTOFFICE.PROVIDENCE.EDU> wrote:
Why is a generation too long? I can walk outside my
office here in
Providence, take a deep breath on this nice late
summer day, and feel
wonderful. I don't feel any pain from taking the
breath - I not going to
drop dead any significant time sooner. Yes, it would
be nice, I guess,
for the air to have absolutely no man-made
pollutants in it, and yes, it
might be nice to live the few extra hours or days
that the current level
of pollution might be taking from me - but this is
hardly a crisis
situation that demands an all or nothing reduction
in pollutants this
very instant. I agree with Rick, that an incremental
approach
concentrating on new power plants, factories, and
buildings coming on
line is more than sufficient. I don't want to
significantly harm myself,
or my daughter, or her future children with
dangerous pollutants. But I
also don't want to take extreme action to eliminate
the current minor
levels of pollution and cause a radical change in
the economy of the
country and my manner of living. Life is good -
right now - and I want
my offspring to enjoy a similar lifestyle. There's
time enough to get
to where we want to be.

Bob at PC

John Barrer wrote:

It's all a matter of where one places one's
priorities. And, what's your evidence for "BIG"?
Compared to what? I think a generation is way too
long. Again, the issue is the real costs that are
borne by "others". Other people's pain like other
people's $$ is all-too-easily ignored. Barrere
--- Rick Tarara <rtarara@SAINTMARYS.EDU> wrote:
Sure you can have cleaner power and
manufacturing--but how quickly do you
want it. If tomorrow (or within a decade) then
expect to pay BIG bucks to
get it. If you regulate for new construction or
provide a reasonable
timetable for retrofitting, then you can have it
in
a generation or so at a
modest cost. Seems to me that we are on the
latter
course. It's the huge
number of power plants/manufacturing facilities
that
is the hang-up.

Rick




*********************************************************
Richard W. Tarara
Professor of Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, Indiana
rtarara@saintmarys.edu



********************************************************
Free Physics Educational Software (Win & Mac)
www.saintmarys.edu/~rtarara/software.html
NEW: Mac versions of Lab Simulations



********************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Barrer" <forcejb@YAHOO.COM>
To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: electric power surplus


Why do folks so often present these arguments
as
either/or??? It IS possible to operate power
plants,
chemical plants, etc. with very low pollution
impacts.
It's just easier and often cheaper to do
otherwise
as
long as the indirect costs of pollution can be
passed
on to others. John BArrere
--- Rick Tarara <rtarara@SAINTMARYS.EDU>
wrote:
And do you want to return to the days of mud
streets
filled with horse
manure, to outhouses, to no medical
technology
and
rampant disease, to
(more) widespread ignorance, etc? The
problem
is
that you can't selectively
turn back the clock--keep the good and
discard
what
_you_ dislike. What you
might want to keep (say medical tech and
sanitation)
depends on those nasty
old power plants and chemical plants!

Rick






*********************************************************
Richard W. Tarara
Professor of Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, Indiana
rtarara@saintmarys.edu





********************************************************
Free Physics Educational Software (Win &
Mac)
www.saintmarys.edu/~rtarara/software.html
NEW: Mac versions of Lab Simulations





********************************************************

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Sampere"
<sampere@PHYSICS.SYR.EDU>
To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: electric power surplus


The Labor Day storms knocked out power
here
for
almost one week and
people were in agony! I loved it. The
evenings
were so peaceful and
quiet. I'd love to go back to a time when
there
were way less people on
the planet, and they all knew how to
survive
despite what Mother Nature
threw at them.

Sam

John Barrer wrote:

Do yu think you're being funny? You're
not.
John
Barrere
--- Bob LaMontagne
<rlamont@POSTOFFICE.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
wrote:
Power plants, oil refineries,
factories,
hospitals -
they're all ugly,
smelly, and ruin the environment of
those
who
live
within 1000 ft of them.
Let's shut 'em all down. I say 6000 BC
now!

Bob at PC


Tina Fanetti wrote:

And that because of needless
environmental

=== message truncated ===


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