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Re: [Phys-l] Cramster et al.

The phrase "experiments in psychology show" is nonsensical. Experiments can provide counter-examples to predictions, thus showing that the predictions are false; they can also provide examples of successful predictions, thus showing that the successful predictions are not false.
That is the limit of what experiments can do.
Regards,
Jack

"Trust me. I have a lot of experience at this."
General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley




On Thu, 13 May 2010, John Clement wrote:

Actually experiments in psychology show that that the human species is built
to cooperate. Indeed cooperation appears to be stronger than competition.
Most countries have government supported higher education and they do score
higher on tests, if one pays attention to that sort of thing. The Japanese
have an extremely strong cooperative society, and took over American ideas
of both education and economic production. They implemented them very
successfully and essentially drove our auto makers into the ground.

So the idea of government supported higher education is not far fetched,
except the knee jerk economic conservatives would oppose it in the US. It
is worth debating on its merits without ideological bias. Even Adam Smith
said that free markets do not always produce socially desirable outcomes.
There is probably a wide range of possibilities for governmental control vs
free market economics which will probably work well, with the extremes being
the worst solution. Just think at one time we had private fire fighters
competing in cities. The result was that if you called the wrong company
they would let your house and neighboring houses burn down. I suspect that
most of the people on this list are actually on government "dole" because
they work for state or public schools, or have research funded by the
government. Virtually all basic research is funded by the government now,
with private money going into only research with a relatively quick payoff.
Incidentally the "socialistic" Germans are among the top patenters! They
had social security in the 1800s!

So the topic of governmental support for higher education should be
discussed rationally not ideologically.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX


I think this is sad. A very sad view of human nature. Fortunately this
is not so common in Europe.

bc thinks capitalism is an economic system that ensures the manor is not
safe.



On 2010, May 13, , at 05:41, marx@phy.ilstu.edu wrote:


We have enough entitlements in this country to bankrupt us many times
over.
Haven't you figured out yet that socialism has never and will never work
to
ensure a sustainable, productive society?

Capitalism (with the minimal government regulation) is the only way for
humans
to be both incentivized and rewarded for their efforts in an reasonable
manner
and maintain their freedom to achieve as they choose and enjoy the
fruits of
their labors.

No free university education - thank you.


It is for this very reason (minimum benefit) that in England (at least
under
Harold Wilson's socialist government**), students obtain council grants
for
their living expenses, and the U is free. "New Labour" replaced Clause
IV in
1995. I don't know what effect that had - or what Maggie did.

I suspect most of Europe ensures students have a maximum benefit.

Don't bet on it here as long as the gov't is wedded to capitalism.

Under the "Pat" Brown administration the UC was tuition-less. The only
fee
was the "incidental fee ($57), which included subsidy for campus orgs.



** Clause IV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clause_IV


bc "sees'" the US becoming a third world country.


On 2010, May 12, , at 20:42, Jack Uretsky wrote:

Hi all-
I would add to Michael's comments the following observation:
I observed Community college students arriving at school an hour, or
so,
before class and sitting down to do their homework, often with
earphones
attached to their heads. Often, I was told, they had worked at night
jobs
the night before and were tryng to do homework in the only time
available
to them. To the extent that they are "working their way through
college".
often claimed as a commendable enterprise, they are guaranteed to be
getting minimum benefit from the college experience. Perhaps there
are
steps we can take to help such people.
Regards,
Jack

_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
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_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l


_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l

_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l