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From: "Savinainen Antti" <antti.savinainen@kuopio.fi>
Date: 2010, October 06, 00:06:00 PDT
To: "Bernard Cleyet" <bernardcleyet@redshift.com>
Subject: Re(2): It's only Monday: let's fix US education
Hello Bernard,
thanks for letting me know about Boris' nice comment about Finnish education system. I'm also a member of Phys-Lrnr list but for some reason I didn't get the messages from this thread.
Yes, it is true that Finns start school at the age of 7; OTOH children take a preschool year before that but it is just preparing for the school. It is also true that there are not many national tests that students must take. Of course, they have regular course tests devised by a teacher or text book writers. These results stay in school and are not used for school evaluation purposes. Perhaps one reason for positive results in the Finnish education system is teacher's freedom in choosing their pedagogy (naturally, they must follow the same syllabus).
However, all upper secondary school students (a bit over 50% of Finns if I recall correctly) take national matriculation exams at the end of their 12 year (or sometimes 13 years) schooling. These results are made public every year by media. Even though this ranking is unofficial it probably affects school popularity ranking among the students.
Best wishes,
Antti
Antti Savinainen, Ph.D., B.Ed.
Adjunct Professor (University of Jyväskylä)
Senior Lecturer in Physics and Mathematics
Kuopion Lyseo High School
Finland
E-mail: <antti.savinainen@kuopio.fi>
Website: <http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/savant/>
Boris Korsunsky, EdD
Weston High School
444 Wellesley St.
Weston MA 02493
781-529-8030 x 7609
******************************
The book of funny student quotes can be found at
http://funstudentquotes.com
and
http://www.amazon.com/Trophy-Wives-Advanced-Physics-ebook/dp/B003Z4K9M2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1282590200&sr=8-1
________________________________________
From: PHYSLRNR - PHYSICS LEARNING RESEARCH LIST [PHYSLRNR@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of David T. Marx [marx@phy.ilstu.edu]
As to Boris' comments, the United States is bigger than most other countries in terms of land area and
population
----BK: and this is an argument against having a unifying educational agency/philosophy/funding?
and the United States government is a behemoth of overlapping agencies and jobs,
extremely ineffiicient and sometimes corrupt system,
---BK: Overall, compared to most other countries, the US Government is doing very, very well (of course, I come from Russia so I am easy to please).
and people that are very good at making regulations. The problems in education are not solved by commands from on high, they are primarilty
solved by people working at the local level: in the community, in the classrooms, and in the homes of
students.
---This is an opinion NOT supported by evidence because (1) we do have local control and (2) most people agree that the system is not working as well as it should.
Imagine how different education would be in this country if parents and students valued
education and took it seriously as opposed to spending the majority of their time focused on pop
culture and sports.
---BK: I agree. If. If. If. As they say in Russia, "if grandma had a beard, she would be grandpa" (OK, they use a word other than "beard" - but you get my drift.) Yes, if the culture were different, things would have been different. But, assuming that it's true, who is in a better position to lead the change in that culture, than the national effort (led, well, by the national government). If you consider Finland (the best ed. system in the world, by most accounts), it was the national government that led a cultural change that succeeded over the course of a generation (not one election cycle, mind you).
Imagine how different education in this country would be if good, effective teachers
could individually rewarded for their efforts and incompetent teachers could be fired.
---BK: I am only a teacher... what do I know - but, yes, it would have been great. However, the same could be said about the government workers, doctors, lawyers, car mechanics, waiters, college professors, etc. I would like to remind everyone who is lamenting that tenure keeps the bad teachers on the job that there is a huge *shortage* of teachers - as opposed to a competition stifled by the tenure system. Yes, it's tempting to fire all that army of bad teachers - if you can figure out objectively who they are. But where are you going to get an army of good ones???? There is no one knocking at the door...
(On the other hand, judging how many people apply for each college teaching job, ending tenure in *college* should, in principle, result in massive improvement of teaching and research, no?)
Again, I am not sure if this discussion belongs here - Dewey, if you feel that it doesn't, just say a word.
Boris