Re: [Phys-l] Nuclear Reactors

["John SOHL" <JSOHL@weber.edu>]

Hugh brings up some excellent points. Personally, I see nuclear power as an intermediate step. Not because of technology but because of humans. To convert to a system that is dependent on renewables will require changes in our behaviors and in our ability to accept responsibility for our actions and impacts on the planet -- including population control, the 200 kg gorilla in the room. I don't see that as happening quickly unless there is a crisis. It would also take tremendous political will to move the country in that direction quickly (10 to 20 years). One or two politicians with vision and knowledge and will is not enough. Look what happened to Gore for example. 
 
As for nuclear power, we are in some serious trouble. The power plants that were built in the 60's and 70's were made to last for 30 years. Well, that "warranty" has expired. The metals are getting brittle, the containment buildings are getting weaker, and on and on. Those are also old designs with fewer safety features. Yet, we cannot afford to turn them off as Hugh has pointed out. 
 
I visited the Idaho National Laboratory a few years ago and was quite impressed with the technology of newer designs for nuclear power plants. (The name of this lab is a curious example of public pressure and fear in its own right. The name has changed several times to make it sound more cuddly. Swapping the word "nuclear" for "environmental" and then dropping that all together.) 
https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=255&mode=2 
 
They have developed a system that results in glassified nuclear waste that they claim is very hard to reprocess into weapons material or to leak into the ground water. That said, the technology is new and experience with it is limited. 
 
I'd love to see the shift straight to renewables, but I just don't see that happening. I agree with the closing quote that Hugh uses from Chip Giller. But I just don't see the USA heading in that direction because it requires personal change and thinking long term. (I just saw the movie "Idiocracy" which is crude and vulgar in many ways but is disappointingly accurate in even more ways. Maybe that is coloring my thinking right now...)
 
In the meantime, I'd like to learn more about what INL has developed and see if we have some new options for nuclear power. 
 
Even so, we would still be left with issues like uranium mine tailings. I come from a state (Utah) that has one of the worst mine tailings problem on the planet with the old Atlas mine tailings next to the Colorado River near Moab, Utah. A legacy of our 1950's rush to all things nuclear. So even new technology nuclear plants is at best a stop gap measure. But, as Hugh points out, there are loads of problems with coal too. 
 
Short of a national, in your face, crisis that directly impacts the "average Joe" in obvious and direct ways, I just don't see a direct conversion to renewables. 
 
Sigh. Enough ranting and rambling... 
 
All the best, 
 
John 
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
John E. Sohl, Ph.D.
Professor of Physics
Weber State University
2508 University Circle
Ogden, UT 84408-2508

voice: (801) 626-7907, fax: (801) 626-7445
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> > > Hugh Haskell hhaskell@mindspring.com> 4/6/2009 11:41 PM >> ( mailto:hhaskell@mindspring.com> )
<snip>
but we are 
now left with nowhere to put the waste except in the storage pools 
and surface casks at the various plants around the country. Not a 
good idea. Clearly, we cannot build any more nuclear plants until 
that problem is solved, and as long as we have any operating nuclear 
plants (and we cannot just shut them all down now or the electric 
grid will collapse) the problem will continue to get worse, so we do 
need someplace to put all that stuff. But we aren't alone. 
<snip>
Hugh
-- 
Hugh Haskell
mailto:hugh@ieer.org 
mailto:hhaskell@mindspring,.com 
 
So-called "global warming" is just a secret ploy by wacko 
tree-huggers to make America energy independent, clean our air and 
water, improve the fuel efficiency of our vehicles, kick-start 
21st-century industries, and make our cities safer. Don't let them 
get away with it!!
 
     Chip Giller, Founder, Grist.org