Re: [Phys-l] Student engagement

[ludwik kowalski <kowalskil@mail.montclair.edu>]

Just imagine a situation in which a very large number of people like  
Einstein and Heisenberg are produced in a country that has no jobs for  
most of them.

Ludwik


On Dec 6, 2009, at 11:38 AM, LaMontagne, Bob wrote:

> The system that was not working "optimally" also produced  
> Heisenberg, Schroedinger, etc.
>
> As far a students seeming unprepared and not being able to write a  
> simple equation - I feel that we are simply imposing math and  
> science education on people who simply have no aptitude for it.   
> Overeducating people is a tragic waste of human potential in other  
> areas.
>
> Bob at PC
>
> ________________________________________
> From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu [phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu 
> ] On Behalf Of John Clement [clement@hal-pc.org]
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:12 AM
> To: 'Forum for Physics Educators'
> Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Student engagement
>
>        American education has produced a number of physics Nobelists.
> How many were products of physics courses that would be approved by  
> PER
> enthusiasts?
> -------------------------------------------
> Ahh yes.  Just because a system works some, does not mean that it is  
> working
> optimally.  I admit that the very top will often excel even when the
> teaching is wretched.  Einstein is an example of that.
>
> snip....................................
>
> Sorry, but the old saw that we have done well in the past is an  
> indication
> of our "good" education is not proof of anything.  It could very  
> well be an
> artifact of other things.  The usual complaint by college professors  
> that
> students are coming in unprepared is a good argument that something is
> broken.  But the evidence is that teachers are actually doing much  
> the same
> thing they have been doing for years.  I have students who have  
> taken and
> passed college calculus, but they can't write a simple equation or an
> integral.  So what was going on?  The evidence from the physics  
> conceptual
> evaluations and new math conceptual evaluations line up with the  
> idea that
> the education is not working well.  This is compelling evidence, but  
> the
> number of Noble Laureates has not been statistically correlated with  
> the
> type of education, so it is absolutely no evidence of anything about  
> our
> educationl system.
>
> snip....................................
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Ludwik Kowalski, a retired physics teacher
5 Horizon Road, Apt. 2702, Fort Lee, NJ, 07024, USA
Also an amateur journalist.

                                            Food for thought:  
"Absence of proof is not proof of absence."

Updated links  to his selected publications are at:
http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/  ,   http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/my_opeds.html 
  and  http://csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/revcom.html