[Phys-L] Re: [SPAM-4.611] Re: [SPAM-4.611] Re: THE WEDGE STRATEGY of The ID Movement

[jlu at HEP.ANL.GOV (Jack Uretsky)]

No James, you are not paying close attention.  I did not say, " anyone who has
faith cannot do science".  I said, "'Faith' means conclusion first, then
thought.  One who relies on 'faith' cannot do science (by definition)."
        The difference between "has" and "relies on" is crucial.  Or, in a
rough analogy, "I breath when I sleep" is not the same as "I sleep when I
breathe".
                                Regards,
                                        Jack

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, James E Mackey wrote:

> ***Deleted comment here, I did not think was appropriate for the entire
> list*******".  So you say anyone who has faith cannot do science!
> Newton, Faraday, etc. come to mind immediately!  I don't think you
> understand what faith means to a Christian, (or other believers perhaps-
> I can only speak to what I have experienced).
> James Mackey
>
> Jack Uretsky wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 17 Oct 2005, James E Mackey wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > One who posses faith does not stop thinking critically, one just comes
> > > to a different conclusion about the evidence than another perhaps.
> >
> >        "Faith" means conclusion first, then thought.  One who relies on
> > "faith" cannot do science (by definition).
> >                        Regards,
> >                                Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > > Robert B Zannelli wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Faith is the suspension of critical thinking. It's the acceptance of
> > > > something as true because we want it to be true in spite of all evidence to  the
> > > > contrary.
> > > That is not faith as I understand it.  It is certainly not based on
> > > scientific evidence, but since when did scientific evidence become the
> > > only basis for judging things?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This perhaps explains why the faithful feel  threatened by those not
> > > > accepting their particular faith  assertions
> > > Perhaps some do, I know many who do not feel threatened by others.
> > > There are certainly many on this list who would disagree with my views,
> > > but I don't feel threatened! I see many things that I see as complete
> > > misunderstandings of religious viewpoints and of believers in general.
> > > I attribute this to perhaps having had a very bad encounter with someone
> > > professing religious beliefs at some time in their experiences.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > and often seeks to get government on their side to enforce a public  acceptance of their faith beliefs. Under God, ten commandments etc.
> > > >
> > > > Bob Zannelli
> > > Doesn't almost every group work to get government support of their
> > > views.  Isn't that what citizens have a right to do under a democratic
> > > form of govenement - or is it only the religious who do not have that right?
> > > James Mackey
> >
> > --
> > "Trust me.  I have a lot of experience at this."
> >                General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
> >                just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley

--
"Trust me.  I have a lot of experience at this."
                General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
                just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley