[Phys-L] Re: [SPAM-4.611] Re: THE WEDGE STRATEGY of The ID Movement

[jlu at HEP.ANL.GOV (Jack Uretsky)]

Dear Steve Clark, Ph. D.
        Like many fundamentalists, you are treating your ignorance of
biblical scholarship as an excuse for faith in biblical inerrancy.  It
seems to me that if you want to claim any credibility for your views you
should burden yourself with the task of familiarizing yourself with the
bases for contrary views.  The questions you ask have been answered, in
more or less detail, many times over the past century.
        Come back and argue after you have read

        Blenkinsop (Prof. of Biblical Studies at Notre Dame - not known as
an atheistic institution) - <The Pentateuch> (Doubleday 1992)
        Israel Finkelstein (a leading Israeli archeologist), et al. - <The
Bible Unearthed> (about 2004 - I can't lay immediate hands on my copy).
        1 Kings 18:40 (biblical lesson on religious tolerance)

        Torah, according to modern scholarship, was
written as a political tract during the Babylonian captivity, possibly by
Ezra. Moses is a fictitious character, as is the Egyptian "captivity".
The tale may reflect the fact that Egypt pretty much colonized the entire
near East during the 2nd millenium bce.  There is an island in the Nile
that was the home of a Jewish mercenary contingent during much of the
first millenium.

        In a way, I envy you; you have so much to learn.
                                        Regards,
                Jack Uretsky, S.B.,M.S.,Ph.D., J.D., APS Fellos, actor,
singer, bon vivant, and judge of fine whiskey.

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005, Steve Clark wrote:

> The problem here is that you are ascribing Christian principles to
> people professing to be Christian. That doesn't make their behavior
> an accurate reflection of what the Bible requires. In fact, the Bible
> is full of condemnation of just the kind of injustices Hugh
> describes. A quick reading of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Proverbs, to name a
> few, shows all the things that God hates. And the Jews were
> constantly rebuked and punished for their inattention to the
> injustices perpetrated on the poor.
>
> Have we gotten better over the years? Some, but not very much. It's
> that sin problem that we can't seem to shake.
>
> But I have another question -
>
> Why are these Judeo-Christian ideas thought to be from Aristotle or
> the Babylonians? What evidence is there that Moses didn't write the
> first 5 books of the Old Testament? Or that the traditions that have
> come from the Jews didn't originate with their time in Egypt about
> 2500 BC? It seems to me that there is too much discounting of the
> historicity of the Old Testament. At the very least, the Old
> Testament should be granted the possibility that it is historical in
> those areas where it claims to be historical.
>
> Steve Clark, Ph.D.
>
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 3:50 PM, Hugh Haskell wrote:
>
> > At 09:30  -0500 10/13/05, James E Mackey wrote:
> >
> > > Or one might say that the decline in moral basis in our society
> > > allows
> > > governments to do things that would have prompted massive
> > > opposition in
> > > earlier generations, when the US was still a "Christian?" nation
> > > and at
> > > least paid official "lip-service" to christian principles.
> >
> > And during earlier generations, when the US was still a "Christian
> > nation," blacks and women were routinely denied equal rights, were
> > openly discriminated against in employment and wages, blacks were
> > routinely "red-lined" by mortgage and loan companies, denied access
> > to adequate housing, Jews were openly excluded from certain
> > communities, contraception was illegal, gays were openly harrassed by
> > police, and denied employment, even fired if their sexual orientation
> > became known, women were given the right to vote only reluctantly,
> > and only after a prolonged struggle, blacks were routinely denied the
> > right to vote, intermarriage among races was at best frowned upon and
> > at worst illegal. In many parts of the country taking a stand for
> > equal rights for racial minorities, or even women was a
> > life-threatening action. Rape was considered mostly the fault of the
> > woman, unless the woman was white and the rapist black, in which case
> > it became a capital crime whether the accused rapist was ever tried
> > or not. Violence against women was widely condoned, even encouraged
> > in some societies.
> >
> > Are these the "Christian principles" you are talking about?
> >
> > Hugh
> > --
> >
> > Hugh Haskell
> > <mailto:haskell@ncssm.edu>
> > <mailto:hhaskell@mindspring.com>
> >
> > (919) 467-7610
> >
> > Never ask someone what computer they use. If they use a Mac, they
> > will tell you. If not, why embarrass them?
> >                         --Douglas Adams
> > ******************************************************

--
"Trust me.  I have a lot of experience at this."
                General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
                just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley