[Phys-L] Re: THE WEDGE STRATEGY of The ID Movement

[anngeorg at PACBELL.NET (Bernard Cleyet)]

"Seems to me that that those countries with the least religious
> influence are by far the most civilized. The decent of the United
States into
> promoting and committing torture and mass murder has coincided with
the  increased
> influence of religion in Government."

Curious, Sweden has an established religion (receives tax money) as does
the UK.  Now whether those established religions have great influence is
another matter.  I lived (stayed) in Sweden during the 60's for about
two months.  One surprise was the donation cans in the banks for victims
of the VietNam war.  Another was finding an American in every Physics
lab. at Chalmers. I was offered also, but a citizen was found who, of
course, had preference.  For some time the Swedish church was the state
bureaucracy for vital stats, and other duties, I suppose.  My hosts told
me this was gradually being taken over by the state.

I think it's the nature of the influence not its existence.  For example
Italy is supposedly 97% Catholic yet it has the lowest birth rate in
western Europe!, and maybe the world.  consider catechism #2378

A child may not be considered a piece of property, an idea to which an
alleged "right to a child" would lead. In this area, only the child
possesses genuine rights: the right "to be the fruit of the specific act
of the conjugal love of his parents," and "the right to be respected as
a person from the moment of his conception." (#2378)

Rather a Humanist statement, no?

bc





Robert B Zannelli wrote:

> In a message dated 10/12/2005 9:29:34 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> trebor@WINBEAM.COM writes:
>
> The  underlying premise of this tirade seems to be that civilized behavior
> can  only be motivated by theistic injunctions.  This is the error that  needs
> correction.  Why not start a movement toward fostering  reason-based
> civility?
>
> Bob Sciamanda
>
> ===============================
>
>
>
>
> Bob this movement exist, it's called Humanism. And the notion that we need
> theism to have civilized behavior is like saying we need Hitler for good
> government.  Seems to me that that those countries with the least religious
> influence are by far the most civilized. The decent of the United States into
> promoting and committing torture and mass murder has coincided with the  increased
> influence of religion in Government.
>
> Bob Zannelli
>
>
> _http://www.americanhumanist.org/index.html_
> (http://www.americanhumanist.org/index.html)