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[Phys-L] Re: god friendly science



I don't understand this comment??? There are several Johns on this
list, and there is a John J. Clement at U. Mass Amherst, as well as at
least one other John Clement in physics, one of whom comes from
England. The John J. Clement is noted for coauthoring "Preconceptions
in Mechanics", and is not I. My comments about religion are aimed at
pointing out that the large mainline churches are not a problem, and
that they coexist very well with scientific thought. They are our
natural allies because the same forces that promote unscientific
thought are also trying to undercut these churches. They will often
support strict separation of church and state, as we would.

And one real problem with all of this discussion is that while the
unscientific forces are often very ignorant of science, scientists are
equally as ignorant of religion. You may not agree with the ideas in
the various religions, but if you wish to understand what is going on,
you need to study them. There is a similar ignorance of what is going
on in the world politically by most of the population in the US. I
doubt that Europeans were surprised by the breakup of many of the
Eastern European countries, but people in the US certainly were. I
was not, but that is because I do international folk dancing and that
community has had many cultural lessons on Eastern European countries,
as was well aware of the ethnic differences and tensions.

We are truly in the silly season. Trolls and dancers unite.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX


I didn't understand John when he was writing physics, and I
understand him
even less when he writes about religions. He has, however, made a
very
successful career since his transfer.
Regards,
Jack

On Wed, 25 May 2005, Dunning, Rodney Blane wrote:

-----Original Message-----

From: John Clement [mailto:clement@HAL-PC.ORG]

Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:59 PM

Subject: Re: god friendly science

=20

=20

There was an article about 20 years ago by the Vatican's
astronomer=
in


which he explains evolution, and states that there is no conflict=
=20

between the Roman church and either cosmology or evolution. I
thin=
k=20

that you will find that all of the mainline churches, RC,
Episcopal=
,=20

Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran (non Missouri Synod), and even
so=
me=20

Baptist churches have made peace with science, and also take a
non=
=20

literal view of the non historical parts of the bible (Genesis to=
=20

after the flood). However within each of these churches there
are=
=20

groups which may take a more literal view.

Unlike

the first 5 churches mentioned Baptists are very congregational
wit=
h=20

weak centralized authority and the theology actually can vary from
=
one


church to the next.

=20

Among Baptists (I am one), theology usually varies somewhat from one
_person_ to the next. But conservatives and moderates have been
separating themselves into distinct congregations for many years
now,
especially in southern border states. The most vocal in our faith
community have argued that without a literal Adam, Eve, serpent, and
fall from grace, the central message of the gospels (that Jesus died
=
for
our sins) is obviated. This interesting question has, of course,
bee=
n
asked outside Baptist circles and troubled many.

=20

My favorite discussions of Christian belief from a scientific
perspective and of science from a Christian perspective, come from
physicist John Polkinghorne. He is a fellow of the Royal Society,
an=
d
an ordained priest in the Church of England. Some of you may enjoy
T=
he
Faith of a Physicist, if only to see how one can wrestle with the
questions raised by the interaction of faith and science.

=20

If I may, an excellent forum for religion/science questions is
soc.religions.christian. This is a moderated group that you can
reac=
h
through Google's usenet interface. Conversations there are usually
respectful and intelligent, although only a few lurkers have a
strong
background in science.

=20

--

Rodney Dunning

Assistant Professor of Physics

Birmingham-Southern College

=20



--
"Trust me. I have a lot of experience at this."
General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
just before leading them into the Little Big Horn
Valley
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