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[Phys-L] Re: god friendly science



Hi all-
Steve wallows in Christian ignorance.
1. Read the first few chapters of the Illiad - which may have had a
profound influence on late Jewish and Christian beliefs - and explain how
humans could influence the actions of the gods.
2. Read <Kootenai Why Stories> and explain how humans could influence the
actions of Old Man Coyote.
3. Read the apochrypha and realize that the essential step from Jewish to
Christian belief was belief in an afterlife (the "secret message" of early
Christian manuscripts) and this step had been taken at least a hundred
years before the supposed time of Jesus (from the Gospel stories - Paul is
silent on the subject of dates) in late Hellenic Judaism.
4. Ressurection is not unique to the Christian tradition. It is no
accident that the Christians celebrate it in the springtime.
Regards,
Jack

On Tue, 24 May 2005, Steve Clark wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Herb Gottlieb <herbgottlieb@JUNO.COM>
Sent: May 23, 2005 10:07 PM
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: god friendly science

-- Steve Clark <sclarkphd@MINDSPRING.COM> wrote:

Lastly, if the resurrection is not true, then Christianity can't be
either. The whole Christian faith is built on that premise. The
apostle Paul says that Christians are to be the most pitied of all
people if Jesus were not raised from the dead. You can make your
decision, but I think it's true.
-------------------- ------------------- --------------
I am interested in knowing why you think the story is really true.
Is your decision baszed on reasoning, faith, or both.

Thanks

Herb

My decision to accept as true the story of the resurrection has to do with both faith and reason.

Christianity is different from all other religions in that Christians teach that man can not do anything to get to God. It is God that must come to man. No other faith teaches such an upside down idea. All other faiths require man to do the good works to please God. So right away we see a faith that runs counter to the natural inclination of most people. That makes me sit up and take notice.

The examples in the Old Testament that suggests there must be a sacrifice to attone for lack of conformity to the moral law that everyone "knows" - don't kill, don't steal, etc. The Old Testament points to a final sacrifice that will ultimately pay the price that we can't pay (see especially Isaiah 42 & 52).

And then there is the historicity of the New Testament documents. I know that some have tried to discredit the gospels as history, but I don't think they can simply be dismissed. The New Testament documents present a compelling history of life in 1st century Isreal, especially of a man named Jesus who went through the countryside teaching the people.

There is little doubt about the crucifixion of Jesus. So, the only real question is did he rise from the dead? It seems unreasonable to think that a small group of not very brave men would get so fired up about Jesus if he didn't. And as the movement gained strength, it made a lot of people very unhappy - unhappy enough to kill and torture. Reason suggests that these people had something remarkable to tell.

Of course, if Jesus really didn't rise, then his body could have easily been produced by the Romans and the movement would have stopped right them. So, the evidence for the historicity of the resurrection seems pretty solid to me. Of course, there is a certain amount of faith that must accompany a belief in the resurrection since you can always choose not to believe it. And many do. But the Bible tells us that we should expect that, too.

Steve Clark, Ph.D.



--
"Trust me. I have a lot of experience at this."
General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley
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