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[Phys-L] Re: god friendly science



On May 20, 2005, at 9:38 AM, John Mallinckrodt wrote:

But as you seem to say and as Brian Whatcott has
noted, Christian faith--or at least fundamentalist Christian
faith--is actually founded on the thesis that these events really did
happen as described AND that those descriptions rule out natural
explanations. To admit the possibility of natural explanations for
those events or that the descriptions could be inaccurate is, as I
understand it, to engage in heresy at some level.


Two comments:

(1) Christian faith (whether fundamentalist or not) is based on the
deity of Christ. If someone believes otherwise, whether they call
themselves Christian or not, is not by definition of Christian
faith. This fact does not specifically apply to Christian
fundamentalism.

(2) You are right in saying that "Christian faith is actually founded
on the thesis that these events really did happen as described." If
you take away the credibility of the eyewitness testimony by proving
that the eyewitnesses were lying or were duped or that the earliest
recorded testimony is different than the actual testimony of those
witnesses, then you undermine Christian faith entirely.

Any educated Christian, I think, will agree with these points.

You and I may agree to disagree on this point: Christian faith is not
completely blind faith (for the educated Christian obviously). There
is a foundation of eyewitness testimony, and there are various
arguments for and against the credibility of that testimony.



I would hope so, but I'm not convinced that they do for the reasons
stated above. Moreover, it would have to be remarkably compelling
evidence given the astonishing nature of the testimony. IMO there is
no such remarkably compelling evidence. That is where blind faith
becomes essential.

Others who have studied it in much greater detail than me do find
compelling evidence, namely the eyewitness testimony. They do not
consider their faith blind faith.

You do not find the evidence compelling, therefore you consider it
blind faith. Others do find the evidence compelling and say that
there is a reason to believe.

Arguments can be made either way, and there may not be a definitive
reason to believe for or against the eyewitness testimony. That is
why it takes "faith" to believe the supernatural explanation. I'm
just saying that it's not "blind faith" for those who give reasonable
arguments to believe the eyewitness testimony.

It's so easy for us to think that "all Christians are ignorant for
believing" or that all "scientists are athiests." I see both of these
sentiments expressed by some people in our culture today, and I think
it has partially led to the science vs. religion culture war.



I might go on to offer my opinion that there should exist some very
significant cognitive dissonance in the mind of a scientist who is
also a fundamentalist Christian.


Once again, let's leave fundamentalist Christians out of it because
they tend to believe all kinds of things that are easily disproved
and thus we set up a straw man in arguing against fundamentalist
Christians. Besides, they are but one segment of the Christian
population.

I ask whether a scientist can be Christian?

After all, the Christian scientist, by definition, would have to
believe in the deity of Christ (established by the virgin birth and
resurrection of Christ). Is science and the Christian faith
completely at odds or not?

(I'm sure that at some level, we could make the discussion more
general by using illustrations of what a Jewish scientist would have
to believe to be Jewish, what a Muslim scientist would have to
believe to be Muslim, what a Hindu scientist would have to believe to
be Hindu, etc. But, sometimes examining a specific case is easiest.)

Aaron
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