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Re: Atwood's machine problem



On 10/3/04 9:56 PM, "John Denker" <jsd@AV8N.COM> wrote:

Ken Caviness wrote:

Isn't the angular momentum about the pulley equal to zero? L-vector
= r-vector cross p-vector, so the |L| = mrv sin(angle between r and
v). Looks like zero to me, since r & v are parallel (or
anti-parallel).

It sure looks like zero to me.

I agree that the angular momentum approach to the problem doesn't
work.

The way I prefer to look at it is as follows: Any downward force
on one rope is "mirrored" as an upward force on the other rope.
Therefore the system is isomorphic to two frictionless ice skaters
with a rope between them, so whenever either of them pulls, the
two of them move towards each other. For the ice skaters, the CM
is stationary. For the pulley version, you can't say "the CM"
is stationary by the strict definition of CM ... but you can
instead invoke the principle that the same equations have the
same solutions ... so it comes to the same thing. That is, the
weighted average of the two positions (weighted according to
mass) -- with due regard to minus signs -- will be constant.

This is a super-easy problem for me, because when my brother and
I were little, when we were first old enough to have an allowance,
we pooled our allowance for weeks and weeks, and the first thing
we bought was a nice big rope. So we got lots of first-hand data
monkeying with rope.


Howdy,

The L for the monkey about the Pivot Point of the Pulley is definitely NOT
zero. The r vector points from the origin at the Pivot Point of the Pulley
to the CM of the Monkey (the apparent point of application of the earth's
gravitational force on the Monkey). That is NOT parallel to the velocity
vector which is vertically upward. A similar thing is true about the Bananas
except that the L vector for the Bananas is opposite in direction to the L
vector for the Monkey so the two can add to give a net L vector of zero.

Good Luck,

Herb Schulz
(herbs@wideopenwest.com)