Re: PER vs EdD (SciEd)

[Rick Tarara <rtarara@SAINTMARYS.EDU>]

The problem, of course, is that PER work is really not producing any new
Physics, it is producing new educational techniques and understanding for
teaching physics.  One could certainly make the argument (and I'm sure some
do) that an advanced degree in this work belongs in the Education
department, not the Physics department.  Does one need a graduate student
level of understanding of the physics to do educational research on the
introductory curriculum?  This really is a cross-disciplinary field
involving the subject matter of physics, but requiring more advanced
understandings of education and perhaps psychology.

In the end, this makes for a 'hard-sell' in terms of many University level
physics programs.  This suggests that Ph.D.s in PER might have an easier
time finding placement at Colleges where the research criteria for tenure is
not so severe and where, in fact, what can often be rather 'inexpensive'
research is attractive to the institution.  However, having no graduate
students and more than likely having to work on one's own, certainly has its
drawbacks.

Perhaps one of the problems here is that there is an impression surrounding
Education doctorates (an awful lot of coursework and sometimes questionable
research) which may 'devalue' such work and degrees in the eyes of some
purists.  However, it really is a tough question to decide where PER fits in
most University or even College curricula.

Rick

*********************************************************
Richard W. Tarara
Professor of Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, Indiana
rtarara@saintmarys.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Bellina" <jbellina@saintmarys.edu>


> The Physics Education Research (PER) folks are for the most part in
> physics departments.  As I see it, that is the way they keep their
> credibility with the physics community...and thats very important.
>
> Ithink that if you want to be part of a college or university physics
> department, the safest way would be to earn a Ph.D. in a physics
> department doing conventional physics research. Of course after tenure you
> can choose to work in whatever area you can find support. If you choose to
> do PER graduate work in a department that has such a program, then the
> situation becomes a bit more complicated, since in the end, it depends on
> whether you can get hired and then be granted tenure.
>
> The PER field has not reached the point that many young Ph.D's have earned
> tenure.  I believe that it is essential that they do, and that those of
> us who are tenured do whatever we can to help that process.  Since,
> unless Ph.D's from PER programs are tenured, the "program" will collapse
> on itself.  Without tenured positions there is no way for the needed
> research to expand beyond the existing ones where were generally started
> by already tenured faculty.
>
> cheers,
>
> joe
>
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, jwatsonvax wrote:
>
> > I'm getting confused academically. 30 yrs ago, I wanted to teach coll=
> > ege level physics and was STRONGLY advised to get a PhD., NOT an EdD =
> > or this 'new' degree - D.A.=20
> >
> > I now have students asking the difference between a "PER" degree and =
> > EdD / SciEd.
> >
> > What do I tell them?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > James Watson
> > Dept Physics & Astronomy
> > Ball State University
>
> Joseph J. Bellina, Jr.               574-284-4662
> Associate Professor of Physics
> Saint Mary's College
> Notre Dame, IN 46556