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Re: exclusion principle (was electrons)



A better comparison is between the chemistry of neutral atoms and
their associated ions. Also, you need to consider the chemistry (and
physics) of molecules. The difference between ortho- and para- hydrogen
molecules is closely related to the physics of the uncertainty principle.
Consider, in addition, that the spectrum of singly ionized Helium
is Hydrogenlike, except for scale. Proton count does not account for this
fact.


On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, J. Green wrote:

"Interesting" isn't the right word. How about "preposterous"?

Come again?


The chemistry of tritium (3H) is very nearly the chemistry
of hydrogen. The chemistry of 3He is rather different.

This is a perfect example of what I mean. Hydrogen, one proton (including
all isotopes) and Helium, two protons (including all isotopes) have
differenced that can be explained by their proton count. You can have two
atoms with the same # of neutrons and the same # of electrons, but if their
proton count is different, you have entirely different characteristics.
Your example of 3H and H is exactly the opposite, but their proton count is
the same, so that could be used to explain the similarities between the two.

> I am trying to deal with electrons here, and the exclusion principle
> as applied to electrons can be ignored if you just count protons.

It would be more accurate to say you can ignore the
exclusion principle if (and only if) you ignore all
the observed facts in chemistry, materials science,
and electronics, plus many additional facts in physics,
astronomy, and a few other areas.

The issue was that the exclusion principle was THE explaination for the
differences between H and He. I merely provided an alternate explaination
that had nothing to do with the exclusion principle, and my explaination had
nothing to do with something "some guy said".

In the absence of exclusion, helium would be about as
reactive as hydrogen.

Only if you ignored the proton count.


Also remember that the homework was to find five independent
observable phenomena that provide objective evidence of
exclusion. Hint: I was able to come up with 5 phenomena
in two minutes and >10 phenomena in ten minutes. Actually
12 but a couple of pairs are arguably partially related.

If I can come up with 10 or 12 you ought to be able to
come up with 4 or 5.

I'm not trying to prove or disprove the exclusion principle. My intent was
SPECIFICALLY to stay away from the exclusion principle. I just want to try
to understand the electron itself, and this thread has gotten off that
subject. If we could return, that would be nice.

Josh Green


--
"Don't push the river, it flows by itself"
Frederick Perls