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Re: Socratic Method

On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Richard Hake wrote (in relevant part):
________________________snip_______________________________________

But Socratic? Why do you think they force fed him the hemlock?
URETSKY-URETSKY-URETSKY-URETSKY-URETSKY-URETSKY-URETSKY-URETSKY

Jack may have missed or may have rejected my arguments in (Hake 2002):


HAKE-HAKE-HAKE-HAKE--HAKE-HAKE-HAKE-HAKE--HAKE-HAKE-HAKE-HAKE
The Socratic method has been sadly neglected by physics instructors .
. .[and Physics Education Researchers - e.g., the exclusion of SDI
from Redish & Rigden (1997)]. . . , despite its demonstrated
effectiveness. Possible reasons are:

(1) the competing allure of the quick high-tech fix (rather than slow
deep-thought redesign) of science education,

(2) the degree of understanding and commitment required of instructors,

(3) unfamiliarity with and MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE METHOD.

That method, employed so successfully (see Table II and refs. 20-22,
34, 35, 43d of Hake 1998b) is NOT derived from the CLASSIC Socrates
of Plato's "Meno," as implied by Morse (1994) and Swartz (1994,
2000). . .[and has no connection whatsoever with the infamous law
school travesty as depicted in "The Paper Chase" (Osborne 1983))]. .
. , but rather from the HISTORICAL Socrates as researched by the late
great classical scholar G. Vlastos (1990, 1991).
HAKE-HAKE-HAKE-HAKE--HAKE-HAKE-HAKE-HAKE--HAKE-HAKE-HAKE-HAKE
____________________________________snip_____________________________
1. The "The Paper Chase" did not portray my law school experience, and is
irrelevant to this discussion.
2. It was a long time ago that we discussed this, but I remember looking
into the Vlastos references and concluding that he had not found
significan historical references to Socrates other than what is in Plato.
3. The approved way to cite work that is not immediately in evidence is
to summarize the significant parts of the work. If Dick Hake knows of
significant discoveries about Socrates let him summarize the discoveries
and the sources used in making those discoveries. To the best of my
knowledge Plato is the sole significant source on Socrates existence and
teaching techniques. So, come on, Dick, enlighten us!
4. If Dick thinks his technique differs from that of the traditional
Socrates in Plato, he should, IMO, consider giving it another name.


REFERENCES
Galileo Project. 2002. A leading resource for teaching materials on
the Web; online <http://galileo.harvard.edu/>/ "Socratic Dialogue
Inducing Labs/ "Resources for SDI"/ "Teacher's Guides" where "/"
means "click on."

Hake, R.R. 1998a. "Interactive-engagement vs traditional methods: A
six-thousand-student survey of mechanics test data for introductory
physics courses," Am. J. Phys. 66: 64-74; online as ref. 24 at
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake>.

Hake, R.R. 1998b. "Interactive-engagement methods in introductory
mechanics courses," online as ref. 25 at
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake>. A sadly unpublished (PER HAS
NO ARCHIVAL JOURNAL!!) crucial companion paper to Hake (1998a):
average pre/post test scores, standard deviations, instructional
methods, materials used, institutions, and instructors for each of
the survey courses of Hake (1998a) are tabulated and referenced. In
addition the paper includes: (a) case histories for the seven IE
courses of Hake (1998a) whose effectiveness as gauged by pre-to-post
test gains was close to those of T courses, (b) advice for
implementing IE methods, and (c) suggestions for further research.

Hake, R.R. 2002a. "Re: Socratic Method,"
PhysLrnR/Phys-L/Physhare/AP-Physics post of 14 Nov 2002
14:32:54-0800; online at
<http://lists.nau.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0211&L=phys-l&F=&S=&P=15118>.

Hake. R.R. 2002b. "Socratic Dialogue Inducing Laboratory Workshop,"
Proceedings of the UNESCO-ASPEN Workshop on Active Learning in
Physics, Univ. of Peradeniya, Sri Lanka, 2-4 Dec. 2002; also online
as ref. 28 at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/>.

Osborne, J.J. 1983. "The Paper Chase." Warner Books.

Swartz, C. 1994. "The Classic Socratic Method." Phys. Teach. 32(3), 138-141.

Swartz, C. 2000. "Buzzwords and Newspeak," Editorial, Phys. Teach. 38(3): 134.

Morse, R.A. 1994. "The Classic Method of Mrs. Socrates," Phys. Teach.
32: 276-277.

Redish, E.F. & J.S. Rigden, eds. 1997. "The Changing Role of Physics
Departments in Modern Universities: Proceedings of the ICUPE." AIP.

Uretsky, J. L. 1993. "Using Dialogue Labs in a Community College
Physics Course," Phys. Teach. 31(8): 478-481.

Vlastos, G. 1990. Private communication to R.R. Hake, September 17.

Vlastos, G. 1991. "Socrates, Ironist and Moral Philosopher" (Cornell
Univ. Press, 1991), esp. Chap. 2, "Socrates contra Socrates in Plato."

Vlastos, G. 1994. "Socratic Studies" Cambridge University Press.






--
"What did Barrow's lectures contain? Bourbaki writes with some
scorn that in his book in a hundred pages of the text there are about 180
drawings. (Concerning Bourbaki's books it can be said that in a thousand
pages there is not one drawing, and it is not at all clear which is
worse.)"
V. I. Arnol'd in
Huygens & Barrow, Newton & Hooke