Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

Re: friction frustration



Something I've noticed that may help you to sort out what's going on here:

Give a suitable shove to a cart so that it rolls freely up that ramp, comes
instantaneously to rest and rolls down again. Track the motion with the
ultrasound sensor and look at the v - t graph. Typically I find a "broken"
line, with a kink as it crosses the v=0 axis. I attribute this to the fact
the gravitational component down the ramp and friction act in the same
direction on the way up but in opposite directions on the way down, with
the change in acceleration clearly noticeable and measureable, what's more.
This enables you to measure the frictional force in a different way, so it
may be helpful.

Mark

At 15:05 12/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
I teach several sections of high school physics, and ran in to the sa=
me
problem consistently during a recent activity. I was doing a lab wit=
h
carts on an inclined ramp. The intent was to have the students predi=
ct
the acceleration for the cart based on the angle of the incline and t=
he
weight of the cart. They were to then find the actual value for
acceleration using Mac Motion with sonic ranger motion detectors. =
=20

I was hoping that as the students increased the angle of the ramp=
,
they would have better agreement between predicted and actual values =
for
acceleration due to the decrease in friction (decrease in normal forc=
e
resulting in less friction). However, when I tried to have them wor=
k
backwards from the actual acceleration to eventually arrive at a valu=
e
for friction, they consistently found that the amount of friction was
increasing as the angle increased.

Here's how the calculation worked.

Cart mass =3D 1.26 kg

Incline =3D 3.1 degrees

x-component of force =3D 0.67 N

ideal acceleration =3D 0.53 m/s/s

=20

Analyzing the acceleration graph in mac motion gave an average
acceleration of 0.27 m/s/s

Then I had them work backwards to find the force that would cause tha=
t
amount of acceleration,=20

1.26kg*0.27m/s/s =3D 0.34 N

=20

I assumed that the difference between the forces ( 0.67 - 0.34 =3D 0.=
33N )
would more or less be attributable to friction.


However, when I had them increase the angle (using same cart and ramp=
)
they got numbers like this...

Incline=3D10.56 degrees

x-component of force =3D 2.26N

ideal acceleration =3D 1.79 m/s/s

=20

=2E..and mac motion returned an average acceleration of 1.37 m/s/s,
meaning the force was 1.72 N. The difference would be (2.26 - 1.72 =
=3D
0.54 N). So it would appear that increasing the angle resulted in mor=
e
friction. OOOPS!

=20

My goal was to have an extension to the lab where they would work wit=
h a
fourth angle, but calculate the amount of friction beforehand based o=
n
coefficient of friction and normal force (I had hoped to return
consistent values for the coefficient of friction for the three initi=
al
angles, but the coefficient of friction was apparently increasing) in
order to have a more accurate prediction for acceleration.

=20

I'm assuming the main source of friction that we're dealing with is
occurring where the axle meets the bearings (we're using some older
wooden carts with less-than-"frictionless" bearings). =20

1.=09Should that amount of friction not be decreasing with an
increase in angle for the ramp? =20

=20

=20

2.=09Am I fundamentally flawed in my assumptions for friction in this
lab?

=20

=20

I'm fairly confident in the mac-motion values, the acceleration graph=
s
ended up having obvious horizontal regions, and the students were abl=
e
to analyze those sections to get a solid average value. The only
problem I can see with the data collection comes from the small data
collection period. The ramps were only 1m long, and 0.5 m of that is
useable because of the detectors personal buffer space.

=20

Help?

=20

Thanks,

Matt Harding

Iowa City West High School

=20

=20

=20

=20

This posting is the position of the writer, not that of SUNY-BSC, NAU or
the AAPT.

Mark Sylvester
UWCAd
Duino Trieste Italy

This posting is the position of the writer, not that of SUNY-BSC, NAU or the AAPT.