Re: North again

[Jack Uretsky <jlu@HEP.ANL.GOV>]

Hi all-
        I couldn't quickly lay hands on my Hesiod, so I can't give you
quotes.  Hesiod is believed to be older than Homer; he records the myths
about the origins of the gods.  There are descriptions there of the
seasonal progression of the constellations, a notion that would be
meaningless without a concept of direction.
        Hesiod may date to the eighth century b.c.e (in modern parlance),
which is about the time of the earliest writings with the "modern" greek
script (as opposed to, say, linear B).  Egyptian pyramids date to several
hundred years earlier.
        I wrote some time ago (last January, maybe?) about a neat bit of
detective work that was done to deduce very precise dates for the
construction of a certain group of pyramids based upon accurate
measurements of the misalignment of the pyramids with the present day
north.  The dates were obtained by making a clever guess about which star
was being used as the "North Star" by the ancient architects.
        I suppose the answer to Jim's question, which is not really
knowable, that the first creatures to have a concept of direction in a
sense suitable for navigational purposes were those who first did
observational astronomy.
                                Regards,
                                        Jack

On Sat, 8 Dec 2001, Ludwik Kowalski wrote:

> Thanks for the last sentence. But the first is not clear. I do not
> recognize a place which may create a "misleading impression
> of the history." What gave you this impression, John?
> Ludwik Kowalski
>
> "John S. Denker" wrote:
>
> > Ludwik Kowalski wrote:
> > > Here is a quote from William Gilbert (1600): "Over-inquisitive
> > > theologians, too, seek to light up God's mysteries and things
> > > beyond man's understanding by means of the loadstone as a
> > > sort of Delphic sward and as an illustration of all sort of things."
> > > Loadstone is a north-seeking magnet, presumably recognizing
> > > this special direction. While philosophers speculated some
> > > unknown inventors found practical ways of using the mystery
> > > phenomenon for navigational purposes.
> >
> > With all respect to Gilbert, this gives a misleading
> > impression of the history.
> >
> > According to Needham, compasses have been used for
> > divination for over 2000 years.  They have been used
> > for navigation for over 1000 years.  The invention
> > was transmitted from China to Europe over 900 years
> > ago.
> >
> > The concept of "north" is quite a bit older than that.
> > In China and Egypt there are 5000-year-old structures
> > aligned north-south.  And I rather doubt that "north"
> > was a new idea even then.  Ancient people weren't stupid.
> >
> > The preferred spelling these days is "lodestone".

--
"But as much as I love and respect you, I will beat you and I will kill
you, because that is what I must do.  Tonight it is only you and me, fish.
It is your strength against my intelligence.  It is a veritable potpourri
of metaphor, every nuance of which is fraught with meaning."
                     Greg Nagan from "The Old Man and the Sea" in
                     <The 5-MINUTE ILIAD and Other Classics>