Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

Re: AP Students



In the spirit of offering a two cents contribution to
furthering constructive debate, I offer this.

In his 4/21/01 Phys-L post "Re: AP Students," Jack Uretsky writes:

"I am still awaiting data supporting the view that a high mark on the
fci is a predictor of some worthwhile trait after graduation."

In turn Richard Hake writes at 16:42 4/21/01 -0700:

... I am still awaiting data supporting the view that there is
any data whatsoever that can serve as a predictor of some worthwhile
trait after graduation.

Whether or not the FCI score is a predictor of some worthwhile trait
after graduation is, IMHO, totally irrelevant. The point is that if
graduates of high-school AP physics classes achieve relatively low
average normalized gains <g> on the FCI (1), then one may fairly
conclude that such classes do little to enhance students'
understanding of the basic concepts of Newtonian mechanics.


Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
24245 Hatteras Street, Woodland Hills, CA 91367
<rrhake@earthlink.net>
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake>


This topic is of such relevance and importance to the purpose of
this list that I am tempted to reparse the commentary given above,
for my further edification.

"if graduates of high-school AP physics classes achieve
relatively low average normalized gains <g> on the FCI (1),
then one may fairly conclude that such classes do little to
enhance students' understanding of the basic concepts of
Newtonian mechanics."

ASSUME
1) FCI indicates an understanding of the basic concepts of
Newtonian mechanics.
2) People who have taken high-school Advanced Placement Physics
do not necessarily demonstrate much increased understanding of
the basic concepts of Newtonian mechanics.

THEREFORE

It is possible that AP students are so well prepared in mechanics,
that there is not much room for improvement (diminished returns...)

OR

It is possible that AP students are not instructed much in mechanics,
on the basis it is incidental to the objectives of AP Physics.
-----------------------------------

I am still awaiting data supporting the view that there is
any data whatsoever that can serve as a predictor of some worthwhile
trait after graduation.

[trait: distinguishing feature in character, physiognomy,
habit or portrayal.
graduation: completion of a high-school diploma (US)
or college degree]

Traits possibly demonstrated by completion of any four year degree
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1) If average job residency is now 3 years or so, the completion
of a four year degree demonstrates above average persistance in
an occupation.
2) If a four year degree costs at least $6000 and possibly $60,000
or more then completion indicates a personal ability to marshal the
necessary resource of money or surrogates such as scholarships
and grants.
3) A capability to demonstrate a required level of attendance, and
desired answers on tests and exams.

(Surveys consistently show improved lifetime income for people
with 4 year degrees vs those without)
------------------------------------------------------

"I am still awaiting data supporting the view that a high mark on the
fci is a predictor of some worthwhile trait after graduation."

ASSUME
this sentence means this:

Does a demonstrated understanding of basic Newtonian concepts
predict some worthwhile trait after graduation?

THEREFORE

If the improved understanding of basic Newtonian concepts
persists after graduation, is this useful?

(I have no difficulty in answering yes to this....)

BECAUSE

The ignorance of Newtonian concepts in a graduate is a marker
for an arts type degree, which is found to correlate with lower
lifetime income than an engineering or science degree.


I have used money as an accessible indicator of comparitive worth.
There are more subtle measures, I am sure....


SUMMARY CONCLUSIONS

Jack is cynical on the benefits of Newtonian mechanics
at degree level. (??)

Richard is cynical on the benefits of a four year degree. (??)

It is possible to adduce some level of evidence that may
convince a reasonable person to some extent of the benefits of
a degree, and the further benefits of a science or engineering
degree which includes understanding basic Newtonian mechanics.





brian whatcott <inet@intellisys.net> Altus OK
Eureka!