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I don't know if PHYS-L people really would want to get involved with that
discussion, because we can talk forever and not convince anyone. To
convince them, they must confront the fact that they've been visualizing
the physics of flight incorrectly, as well as angrily defending an
incorrect premise. And these people are pilots! It's far easier to
convince a non-expert that their pre-existing concepts are actually
misconceptions! :)