Re: devil's advocate--more ramblings

["Dewey Dykstra, Jr." <dykstrad@varney.idbsu.edu>]

Rick says:

> A couple more comments on this thread:
>
> It is not at all clear to me what the best type of physics course IS for
> the other 95% (or at least the majority of that 95%).

I don't recall advocating any particular style or type of course in this
thread myself.

> This might be against the constructivist's religion, but there
> really might be many different styles of instruction that are
> effective--effective for different clientele and for different types of
> courses.

When many arguments are studied often it seems that when one group calls
another a 'religion' or some such in a derogatory sense, that group is
often found to be just as orthodox and ideological, if not more so, as the
group it is labeling.

I don't recall seeing the term "constructivist" previously in this thread
either.

> I do think everyone on this list (and in general teachers everywhere) want
> to be more effective, and are (at least somewhat) open to change.

While I'd like to think so, it sure sounds like some very vocal ones are
defending the status quo, while choosing to ignore pretty effectively
evidence that things may not all be well.

> However,
> when the prophets of the 'new order' start out by TOTALLY trashing the past
> several centuries of instructional work, their credibility (or at least the
> extent to which one is willing to listen) is reduced.

It seems to me that this sort of response that someone (I?) am "TOTALLY
trashing" everything when the suggestion in previous notes have been made
is like assuming that someone has said that NO cats are Persian just
because he has  said he thinks that a *particular* cat is not Persian.

If one was happy or satisfied with what is then why change?  Heaven knows
that in most educational institutions it pays to fit in and it decidedly
does not pay to try to make major changes regardless of one's reasons.

If everybody thinks that everything is pretty much okay, fine don't bother.

I was just asking if everybody really thinks that everything is fine given
how "well" we do overall.  I never said that we do not have a satisfactory
number of scientists/physicists/engineers.  I never said that these few
don't eventually end up with an understanding of physical phenomena and the
vocational skills to make up the profession.  All I am saying is that I
only see people making the case for defending the status quo from 5% or
less of our "product" and/or rejecting other evidence without any more
justification as they accuse others of others of having.

Yet, I see several things not to be proud of with the other 95% and since
it has been brought up I would now add that this is going on for several
centuries.

> All this is
> compounded by the tendency in education (general) to gravitate from fad to
> fad on a regular basis (cycling through every 20 years or so).  I
> understand that now that almost all of the 'open-concept' schools have been
> remodeled to wall off the rooms, that the open-concept IS BAAACK!

A good way to preserve the status and get an idea to go away is to label it
as a fad and treat it as such.  Again, just because you find fault with
something else, does this mean everyone should be convinced to find fault
with another just to preserve a status quo?

I am not trying to prove anybody wrong.  I'm just saying that there are
ways of looking at the situation which leave it not looking very good at
all and in some small way trying to point them out to everyone else.  To me
these things I see are more than enough justification to try things
differently.  Also, to me it looks like what I thought I learned that
science/physics was all about, what its approach is and the justifications
for this approach, are being ignored in the general scene here.  As a
consequence I am asking to hear the response to this more specifically.  I
guess it is clear enough.

Thanks for listening and responding.

Dewey


This doesn't sound like the physicists' approach I was told about.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dewey I. Dykstra, Jr.                   Phone: (208)385-3105
Professor of Physics                    Dept:  (208)385-3775
Department of Physics/SN318             Fax: (208)385-4330
Boise State University                  dykstrad@varney.idbsu.edu
1910 University Drive                   Boise Highlanders
Boise, ID 83725-1570                       novice piper

"Physical concepts are the free creations of the human mind and
are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external
world."--A. Einstein in The Evolution of Physics with L. Infeld,
1938

"Don't mistake your watermelon for the universe."  --K. Amdahl in
There Are No Electrons, 1991.
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