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Re: [Phys-L] counter intuitive teaching

Yes, there is a weak linkage with genetics, but there is strong research
which shows that hormone exposure before birth changes one's sexuality.
Researchers have been able to create homosexual rat with otherwise normal
male characteristics by manipulating hormone levels. Indeed high levels of
stress before birth change the sexual orientation. This was found for
mothers who went through the London blitz. So it is in most cases caused by
events before birth. But of course sexuality is very complex, so there are
probably other causes. In either case homosexuality happens to all kinds of
critters dogs, cats, birds, rats..., so how can this be just social
attitude? In addition the psychologists have found that it is seldom
amenable to being changed. Attempts to change it generally promote higher
suicide rates, but that doesn't stop the extremists from doing horrible
things to their children. Sure being gay is highly correlated with
depression and other problems. Poverty, disability, and social disapproval
are also correlated with depression. Children pick up the social vibes
early and learn to hide their true feelings. The result is sometimes
depression. I had severely down feelings after a nun said I had a devil
inside me. I got over it, but I can not forget that memory. Most evidence
that is cited by both camps is statistical. So do homosexual parents
promote that behavior in their children? Possibly, or they might just
promote a greater tendency to not be closeted.

People's attitudes toward this human variation is generally conditioned by
the social/religious environment. Having homosexual friends changes the
horrible homophobic attitudes to more tolerence. Incidentally there is
evidence that being aware of female physicists helps women to persevere in
the field. So familiarity with the other group helps generate tolerance.

So the liberal point of view is that if something is just a human variation
that we have no control over, we should promote equal treatment. Now
whether one should do it by law or by social change is certainly debatable,
but that is a political discussion. Some prominent conservatives have
changed their minds and promoted such political solutions such as gay
marriage. In either case should we punish people who are different whether
that difference is obviously physical (blindness, skin color, deafness...),
mental (dyslexia, homosexuality...), or social (Amish, Muslims...)?

As to boy scouts, traditionally the gay boys learned early on to conceal
their orientation, but now they are being defiant about it and have gained
some slight tolerance. Every society has different attitudes. English
public schools tolerated it among the boys, but expected them to outgrow it.
India does not acknowledge that it exists and they expect all men to marry
and have children, which they do. On the side they have fun with their boy
companions. There was one isolated tribe that actively encouraged young
boys to experiment, but then expected them to get married and to be good
members of the tribe, which most did.

Tolerance by teachers is important. We all need to express it and get rid
of attitudes such as "girls can not do physics" as well as other attitudes.
Research shows that people have these unconscious attitudes. So identical
resumes with different names often produce disparate results. The white
names are picked by a wide margin. MDs unconsciously treat black patients
differently from white ones with identical symptoms. The MDs are shocked
when they see this research. It has been found that one time exposure to
these facts does not work because the MDs relapse. They think they are
tolerant but the unconscious attitudes are counter intuitive. They have to
be constantly reminded of them. I have witnessed horrible attitudes by
males toward females who are more brilliant. Even now there is conscious
and unconscious bias against females in many sciences and industries. Read
the book or attend the play "Rocket Girl" to see an example of this. It was
a self taught female who was the best analyst and was the only one able to
formulate a fuel mixture which enabled the Redstone rocket to achieve orbit.
Of course homosexuals have been able to hide their orientation and have
achieved high success, while women could not hide their gender. Should they
have to hide?

There are lots of books claiming to explain the homosexual variation in
humans, and I am pretty sure that most are biased. One fact that is very
compelling is that the vast majority are male. Also males have more
congenital defects. This is because the normal physical outcome is female
and the switch to male characteristics happens by a hormone infusion. This
is a critical point which causes a wider diversity in outcomes. At this
point the mental characteristics also are fixed. We can not do experiments
on humans to prove this. Someday it might be possible to continusously
monitor fetal development to see if this is what causes variations in sexual
orientation and gender identity. But the rat studies show this, so this is
the closest we have to finding the causative agent. Until we have actual
studies that show the exact cause in humans this is the most reasonable
model.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX


Bernard,
- There you again, writing on something outside of physics
which you do not understand.
- Do you actually believe that homosexuality has no causation
aside from genetic which has been disproved?
- The media riddled with catchy, usually meaningless tidbits,
is a poor teacher in this as in many other areas.
- There is no short cut to understanding - you gotta slug
your way through some serious reading in order to really understand.
- Read up on the causes of over 90% of homosexual outcomes
and you will become able to address this topic better.
- I can provide you a list of books which I have read if you
like, including some from both major sides of the argument.
- Do your homework and you will become a better advocate for
homosexual people while at the same time opposing some of the
shallow mainstream liberal viewpoints.
Bill

On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Bernard Cleyet
<bernard@cleyet.org> wrote:


On 2015, Mar 08, , at 18:43, Richard Tarara <rtarara@saintmarys.edu>
wrote:

Not sure what this thread has to do with anything, but
seemingly we
are
'hard-wired' to lie...just observe young children (the
researchers have)!
All the 'boy-scout' virtues need to be learned and conditioned.

rwt


All? including homophobia?



bc, railing against BSUSA homophobia "got" him kicked off
the tap-l list.

bc discovered recently ~ 3/4s scout troops are church sponsored and
the majority is (are?) the Mormon church.


http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/lds-top.html
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