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[Phys-L] Imagine a World Without Religion



Many thanks, John, for those elements of wisdom, but in some times and
places, isn't there a call for absolutism? Bill Norwood, U of MD at
College Park


On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:11 AM, John Clement <clement@hal-pc.org> wrote:

While religion is not an appropriate subject for a physics forum, there is
something of interest here.

The problem is not religion, but rather an absolutist philosophy. One can
be absolutist in any field of endeavor, and this blocks the ability to see
reality. Students twist the facts to fit their preconcieved notions.
Mazur
points this out in his video. This is a human nature problem in that we
resist examining facts rationally and then only notice selected evidence
that agrees with our paradigms.

For example one can have an absolutist belief that global warming can not
be
caused by human actions.
Or one can be absolutely certain that evolution can not happen. Even
atheists can deny evolution, but how do they explain biology???
Or one can be absolutely certain that absolute freedom will produce the
best
social outcome in all cases, but even Adam Smith said that was not true.
MDs resist evidence when it conflicts with their training, so they resisted
the idea that bacteria can cause ulcers.
They resisted the idea that antiseptics could lower mortality rates despite
overwhelmingly clear experimental evidence.
Morality can be absolutist without any belief in a supreme being.

Was Stalin a religious man?
How about Hitler?
Genghis Khan?

The problem is built into human nature and some people are more susceptible
to taking an absolutist point of view. For example people who are OCD tend
to be very religious. I have seen someone who was an absolute atheist turn
into a fundamentalist Christian. The basic personality was actually the
same, but the belief system changed.

Our educational system is basically very absolutist in the way it teaches
math, science, history... This happens in secular public schools. So
children grow up with an absolutist paradigm and can switch from one belief
system to another absolute belief system. How was science taught when you
took it. Wasn't it just a set of absolute rules?

There is a theory of morality which is based on observation of the stages
people go through, and not on an ideal morality. The vast majority never
make it to the highest stage. They tend to be stuck in the lower stage,
with many at the absolute stage governed by absolute rules. I just heard a
broadcast on NPR where they interviewed a former jihadist. He is still a
Moslem, but takes a very liberal view of it. I would say he has progressed
to the higher levels of morality. He now promotes tolerance and points out
to people how their beliefs are not in line with what Koran actually says.
He had some very interesting stories where he confronted people who were
Moslem absolutists and could not see the illogical assumptions.

This whole thing is of course precipitated by the recent killings in
France.
It may surprise some, but the Koran says one should avoid unbelievers,
while
the Bible actually says kill them. Psychology experiments have shown that
everyone is capable of atrocities given the right circumstances, and these
experiments did not distinguish between atheists or believers. Actually
none of the actions of the jihadists are blessed by the Koran. There is
actually a strain of liberal tolerance in all religions, but apparently
this
is declining in politics in the US. It may surprise one, but there is a
Moslem center in India where they have always welcomed spokesmen from all
religions and treat all religions with respect.

I firmly believe that atheists and agnostics are just as capable of
atrocities if they have an absolutist philosophy. If you believe that all
human actions are guided rationally then you will believe that all crimes
are done rationally, but this is simply not true. Economics is beginning
to
face up to the fact that the markets are not guided by completely rational
behavior, rather than maintaining an absolute belief in capitalism.
Actually the jihadists believe they can achieve a better society through
their actions and many of the people who are conquered by them appreciate
the stability that they bring. Notice that absolute rulers can sometimes
bring stability and they are appreciated for it.

I would say that attributing all of our ills to one factor is an absolutist
belief, and as such is erroneous, and it contributes to more ills. It is
actually unscientific.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX



So this is not a black hatted post?

bc, devout atheist

and confined to non-moderated (or at least "liberal" policy
moderated) lists.

Is this the letter?:


***************************************************
Imagine a World Without Religion.

No 9/11, no crusaders, no India/Pakistsan partition, no
Israeli/Palestinian wars, no Serb/Croate/Muslim mass
persecutions, no "honor killings," no bouffant-haired
televangelists fleecing the gullible for their money.

God? His big mistake was turning religion over to man.
***************************************************





On 2015, Jan 15, , at 20:29, John Mallinckrodt <ajm@cpp.edu> wrote:

Nobody's blaming god. Most of us don't believe it exists
in the first place. We're blaming those who believe the most
fervently in god.

John Mallinckrodt

On Jan 15, 2015, at 3:31 PM, Richard Heckathorn
<geepaw@wowway.com> wrote:

Greetings, lest one forget, God sent his son to become a
man and live amongst us. And men crucified him. From my
perspective God should not be blamed. For he has the answer
should man choose to seek him and follow his directions.

Have a Great Day

Website rheckathorn.weebly.com



On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:44 PM, Richard Hake
<rrhake@earthlink.net> wrote:

In response to a Los Angeles Times editorial "The right
to mock religion" of 08 Jan 2015, a reaction to the
religion-inspired Charlie Hebdo massacre
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo>, a reader
transmitted this provocative letter to the editor:

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