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Re: [Phys-L] Private schools

I don't see how a tiered diploma system would help. Dont the kids gpa, class rank, and sat/act scores pretty much cover the issue?
I have always assumed that I don't need to worry about a D- student gettng in to medical school.
Am I wrong?
Who just looks at a diploma?
Ok, some of that is tongue in cheek. However, I really do see gpa and class rank as the items of significance in these instances.


Paul Lulai
St Anthony Village Senior High

----- Reply message -----
From: "ron mcdermott" <rmcder@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Jul 10, 2012 4:59 pm
Subject: [Phys-L] Private schools
To: "Phys-L@phys-l.org" <Phys-L@phys-l.org>

You have 'X' dollars in monetary support for public schools. From this you
take 'Y' dollars for each of 'Z' students currently attending a private
school and hand that over to their parents. Public schools now have X-YZ
funds to use for programs. So, the relatively well-off and rich, whose
kids are already in private schools, make out really well, but the poor
defintiely take a hammering in that scenario. That's why I don't think you
can justify universal vouchers. There are numerous philosophical
objections, but the financial argument is, I believe, sufficient.

On another note, Bob, I genuinely doubt that the failure to adopt a
tiered-diploma approach was due to opposition by the evil "teachers
unions". The teachers, through their union, may, in fact, have believed
that such an approach was pointless (which is their right as individuals, I
believe, under the Constitution), but as a retired teacher, I can assure
you that almost no one cares what teachers think, say, or believe. And
they CERTAINLY get no 'vote' beyond that accorded to any other citizen (and
I suspect only a fraction actually had voting rights as a citizen of that
city). So without SIGNIFICANT opposition to the proposal from people who
actually mattered and had the clout to do something about it, any union
opposition would have been irrelevant. I also have to point out that
teachers' unions are restricted in what items they can even NEGOTIATE, let
alone hold veto power over, and the kind of diplomas given out isn't on the
list.

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 4:02 PM, LaMontagne, Bob <RLAMONT@providence.edu>wrote:

Why would you not extend it to "anyone"? The idea of a voucher system is
that every stakeholder has the ability to vote with their feet. I would
assume that every school (public, private, charter, magnet, etc.) would
have certain minimum state mandated standards relating to content, number
of meeting days, number of contact hours, etc. - but after that I would
hope that it is up to the parents to determine where their child is to
attempt to attend. Many assume that if vouchers are used then the public
schools will empty out and people will send their kids to schools run by
cults and the like - sucking up all the money. In reality, most people want
to send their kid to a neighborhood school, even if it is not the best
school in the system. There are only so many teachers available, and only
so many people willing to invest private money in schools that are going to
lose money.

I have never understood the argument that all the disciplinary problems
and academically untalented will end up back in the public schools. These
same kids are in the public schools right now. What happens to them? They
either never graduate because they drop out, or they get an "attendance
prize" diploma. How would that be different with vouchers? There might be a
small redistribution of where these problem kids end up, but it won't be
dramatically different. One would need an infinite number of alternative
schools for that to happen. Others on the list have described what happens
in their own systems when problem students are encountered - I won't rehash
that here.

BTW, Deborah Gist, who is superintendent of Providence Schools proposed a
three tiered diploma system a few years ago. The lowest tier would have
"attended" stamped on the diploma, while the upper would have
"distinguished" written on it. That concept was roundly squashed by the
teacher union and others who did not want students to graduate with the
stigma of a lower tiered diploma. So now they just drop out as they have
done in the past.

Bob at PC

l.org] On Behalf Of ron mcdermott
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 2:55 PM
To: Phys-L@phys-l.org
Subject: Re: [Phys-L] Private schools

What kind of voucher system would you envision, and how would you run it
without negatively impacting the public schools financially? I'm
willing to be
enlightened, but I've been discussing this issue with others for years,
and I
think I've seen ONE system that MIGHT work - IF it remained as limited
as it
was initially. The main problem with any voucher system is that the
goal of
most supporters is to extend it to ANYONE who wants it, including people
whose kids are currently in private schools. Even UNextended, virtually
all of
them will hurt public schools financially.

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:03 PM, LaMontagne, Bob
<RLAMONT@providence.edu>wrote:

What I am a strong advocate of, however, is the use of vouchers.

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