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Re: [Phys-l] Greenhouse effect / 2nd law



At 7:02 PM -0400 4/25/11, Stefan Jeglinski wrote:

I'm struggling to understand the scope of this
argument as written. It sounds from the last line
that the arguer is citing the argument as bogus?
Or is it /you/ referring to the argument and then
saying "this is nonsense." ? Who is arguing what?

I don't see why you couldn't find a way to
arrange this scenario. I prefer to think of it in
terms of power - so the hotter surface radiates
100W and the colder 99W, but it doesn't sound
like equilibrium to me. What does the rest of the
argument you cite entail - any notion of
equilibrium at all, or what that implies or does
not imply?

It seems to me that the main issue is not the warm atmosphere and the cold earth, but the other two major players in this system--the very hot sun and the very cold cosmic background, coupled with the earth's rotation, which means that it is never being heated or cooled uniformly, and therefore never in equilibrium with its surroundings. All that means that, lots of different things can happen including warm things getting warmer relative to nearby cooler things, and whatever happens not happening in any uniform sense.

There is actually one unfortunate paper that has made it past peer review in a small, not widely circulated journal that the 2nd law crowd has jumped on as their main support, but which has been thoroughly debunked by the mainstream scientific community. There are lots of references to it and this issue on the web. It's hard to miss them if you google "2nd law+greenhouse effect."

Hugh
--

Hugh Haskell
mailto:hugh@ieer.org
mailto:haskellh@verizon.net

It isn't easy being green.

--Kermit Lagrenouille