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Re: [Phys-l] How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions - Response to Haim #2

I have no idea how to respond to that. I thought we were talking about assessing urban schools versus elite schools. Where did "white collar" come from? Marty had stated that only 10% care enough even to show up for parent-teacher conferences - I assume he is talking about urban schools. That 10% could certainly benefit by receiving a voucher that would allow them to afford ("white collar" can already afford this") to go to a real school instead of an institution. We are talking about benefitting blue collar here - or at least I was. Your knee-jerk class warfare response was inappropriate and off the mark.

Bob at PC

-----Original Message-----
From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu [mailto:phys-l-
bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf Of
trappe@physics.utexas.edu
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 3:29 PM
To: Forum for Physics Educators
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions -
Response to Haim #2

They are NOT TRAPPED by anything but their white collar greed..., ie,
saying that they need to be reimbursed or they won't participate is
nonsense. They are already participating. They just want a write-off
for doing what they are choosing to do.

Quoting "LaMontagne, Bob" <RLAMONT@providence.edu>:

If vouchers work only for the 10% who show up at parent conferences
then by all means let's give them the vouchers. Why trap them in
institutional settings with the other 90%.

Bob at PC

________________________________________
From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
[phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf Of Marty Weiss
[martweiss@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 12:57 PM
To: Forum for Physics Educators
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions
- Response to Haim #2

On Jan 27, 2011, at 12:08 PM, trappe@physics.utexas.edu wrote:


This is especially true if anyone in the crowd mumbles the word
"VOUCHERS" for the schools who "don't need to prove their
accountability because they are inherently superior".

Vouchers is another joke foisted on the public by politicians who
have no clue as to what really goes on in the typical public school.
The places where vouchers would be pushed are the inner city
schools. The parents and students from these schools accepting
vouchers to a nearby private school would be the 10% who showed up
for parent conferences. The rest would still be in the inner city
school struggling with just getting there on a daily basis, leaving
these schools worse off than before. So, the politicians and
others, ignorant of the daily life of teachers and students in the
inner city, say, "Close the failing schools and send the students
to better schools and charters." Another joke... leopards don't
change their spots. What makes anyone think that just because these
students would be moved to another school their life styles would
change and they would suddenly be transformed into model students?
And, what makes these politicians think that teachers who work in
charters and private schools without the safety nets of tenure and
regular working hours can handle all comers? The dirty little
secret of charters and private schools is that they can, and do,
kick out students who are unruly or cannot (or will not) do the
work. Oh, they claim that nothing of the sort happens, but the
reason it is so rare is that they accept only those who fit in, in
the first place: those who will wear the uniforms, those who will
show up every day on time, and those whose parents will show up for
meetings and sign the pledge to help their kids learn. The squeaky
clean image of charters and private schools is fraying as more
students and parents buy into the hype. This dirty secret came to
light recently in Philadelphia where students from a charter school
and a nearby parochial school got into a brawl near the subway
station close to both schools. And, what caused this brawl involving
several dozen charter and parochial high school students? The
UNIFORMS the charter students have to wear! The charter students
claimed the others made fun of their uniforms! It seems the colors
and "cut" of uniforms became the new excuse to have an old-fashioned
street-war. Several participants were kicked out of their "elite
schools" and where did they go? Back to their neighborhood high
schools!

Marty



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_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l