The abstract of my post "How Much Value is Added at Elite
Institutions - Response to Haim #2" [Hake (2011)], reads in part
[bracketed by lines "HHHHH. . . . ."]:
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Haim continued "First, parents and students seem to know something
about Stuyvesant that educator assessments clearly fail to discern. .
. . . Second . . . very many of Stuyvesant's students graduate at a
very high level (certainly by comparison to most other high school
graduates) of academic achievement. . . . the real problem is
transparent. It is the ceiling effect. . . .City-wide and state-wide
assessments are simply not designed for academic institutions."
The above has nothing whatsoever to do with the theme of my post: "It
is conceivable that if there were 'Eric Mazurs' or 'John Belchers' at
Korsunsky's high-school and the Stuyvesant High School, scenarios
similar to that at Harvard and MIT might occur. . . . . [[i.e.,
realization that students were not learning much from traditional
passive-student lecture methods followed by a switch to
interactive-engagement pedagogy.]]. . . . , even though all those
institutions are regarded as 'elite.' "
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
To which Marty Weiss (2011) responded:
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
That's nonsense. These schools already have teachers on the high
school level equivalence of the Mazurs and Belchers and many others
in top universities, who use techniques that have gotten and kept
such schools on a high level throughout the years. They use
whatever methods work best for the students there, who are selected
from the best in the city. The assessments that are used for high
schools in general may not be suitable for these students who see
such tests as another annoyance to be tolerated. . . . . . The
assessments that are used for high schools in general may not be
suitable for these students who see such tests as another annoyance
to be tolerated. . . . . These tests are a joke; any value added
bonus based on such tests is an insult to the teachers who work
there."
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
If Marty would take the time to go beyond my abstract and scan my
COMPLETE post at <http://bit.ly/gxUOAb>, he would find that:
1. I neither implied nor stated that schools such as Korsunsky's
high-school or the Stuyvesant High School did not have teachers
comparable to Mazur or Belcher.
2. The tests used by Mazur and Belcher were not "the assessments
that are used for high schools in general" and are not "jokes."
Eric Mazur used the "Mechanics Diagnostic" test [Halloun & Hestenes
(1985a,b). According to Dori & Belcher (2002), John Belcher used "20
multiple-choice conceptual questions from standardized tests (Maloney
et al., 2001; Mazur, 1997) augmented by questions of our own
devising."
As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) there have been no
reports of such tests being given at Korsunsky's high-school or at
the Stuyvesant High School.
[URL's shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on 27 Jan 2011.]
Dori, Y.J. & J. Belcher. 2004. "How Does Technology-Enabled Active
Learning AffectUndergraduate Students' Understanding of
Electromagnetism Concepts?" The Journal of the Learning Sciences
14(2), online as a 1 MB pdf at <http://bit.ly/fbOeA8>. See also
Rimer (2009) and Hake (2009).
Hake, R.R. 2009. "At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the
Blackboard - REDUX #2, online on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at
<http://bit.ly/g5qXz6>. Post of 13 Sep 2009 08:31:05-0700. The
abstract and link to the complete post were transmitted to various
discussion list are are also on my blog "Hake'sEdStuff" at
<http://bit.ly/eZpFGb>.
Hake, R.R. 2011. "How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions -
Response to Haim #2 " online on the OPEN! AERA-L archives at
<http://bit.ly/gxUOAb>. Post of 26 Jan 2011 16:14:36-0800 to AERA-L
and Net-Gold. The abstract and link to the complete post are being
transmitted to various discussion lists are also online on my blog
"Hake'sEdStuff" at <http://bit.ly/eyTZAj> with a provision for
comments.
Halloun, I. & Hestenes, D. 1985a. "The initial knowledge state of
college physics," Am. J. Phys. 53(11): 1043-1055; online at
<http://bit.ly/b1488v>. Contains the "Mechanics Diagnostic" test
(omitted from the online version), precursor to the widely used
"Force Concept Inventory" [Hestenes et al. (1992)].
Halloun, I. & D. Hestenes. 1985b. "Common sense concepts about
motion," Am. J. Phys. 53(11): 1056-1065; online at
<http://bit.ly/b1488v>.
Maloney, D. P., O'Kuma, T. L., Hieggelke, C. J., & Van Heuvelen, A.
(2001). Surveying students' conceptual knowledge of electricity and
magnetism. American Journal of Physics, 69(Suppl.), S12-S23; online
to subscribers at <http://ajp.aapt.org/resource/1/ajpias/v69/iS1>.
Mazur, E. 1997. "Peer Instruction: A User's Manual" (Prentice Hall,
1997), Compadre information at <http://bit.ly/bygvAd>.
Rimer, S. 2009. "At M.I.T., Large Lectures Are Going the Way of the
Blackboard," New York Times, 12 January; online at
<http://nyti.ms/e3JtYN> (with 74 comments as of 12 Sept 2009
12:51:00-0700).
Weiss, M. 2011. "Re: How Much Value is Added at Elite Institutions -
Response to Haim #2," online on the OPEN! Physoc archives at
<http://bit.ly/f2NT5e > . Post of 27 Jan 2011 11:38:52-0500 to
Phys-L and Physoc.