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Re: [Phys-l] "Unlearning"



Hi Dan,

Have you tried any of the old classical sociologists such as Herbert
Spencer or Emile Durkheim. I think Comte was in the evolutionary school
and some other classicists but I can't recall their names.

Greg

"Dan L. MacIsaac" 09/12/10 3:28 AM >>>
back on topic about that word "unlearning" itself that I like to think
about so very much:

On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:25 PM, John Denker wrote:

On 09/10/2010 03:12 AM, Dan L. MacIsaac wrote in part:

- whether anything can be "unlearned" at all

Habits can be changed. For example, when people travel
from Britain to the US, we expect them to learn to drive
on the right side of the road. Some of them struggle
with it more than others.

Sure, but you're not convincing me that "unlearning" exists. Mental
structures aren't overwhelmingly being erased -- but modified, extended
and some aspects are suppressed -- the original stuff is ALL PRETTY MUCH
STILL THERE. When the people return to Britain they won't need to
re-learn to drive from scratch, though they may have some inappropriate
reactions at times. They will not restart from zero.

I agree that behaviors and skills can be more or less entrenched and
that individual learning and reflexing training take place at different
rates. I just don't agree that we regularly throw out earlier
arrangements of conceptual structures we learned (as adults -- children,
especially very young children do prune physical structures in their
brains as they age). I think more that mental structures are reformed,
modified, extended and suppressed in some kind of evolutionary-like
patterns as they compete and are selected to control the organism. I
like an evolutionary like model b/c it gets to the point that we evolve
existing mental structures to create new ones, we rarely if ever get to
start absolutely from scratch. Kind of like the panda's thumb or having
a breathing tube shared with a food intake -- horrible kludges, but we
can only develop and use what we start with -- we don't get to go back
to a clean drawing board.

This rationale is kind of Piagetian -- theorizing about learning in
humans from a biological (learning in animals) basis. I'd be delighted
if someone could point me towards more reading about evolutional models
of learning.

The point of this note is that in my experience, students
can unlearn (or modify) an old idea more easily if they
were warned -- from the very beginning -- about the
limitations of the idea, so that they never become
unduly attached to it.

Then this would be an implied or universal warning for all human
learning. My definition of (significant) learning always involves
modifying existing mental structures, varying only in mow much. Though I
certainly prefer and promote the learning of physics as including
learning limitations (range and domain of the model) as you go along. I
think this is part of what real learning means to me -- not
memorization.

Loving this conversation and thanks for your patience,

Dan M


Dan MacIsaac, Associate Professor of Physics, SUNY-Buffalo State College

222SciBldg BSC, 1300 Elmwood Ave, Buffalo NY 14222 USA 1-716-878-3802

Physics Graduate Coordinator and Dept Chair pro tem

Fall 2010 Visiting Scholar
Helsingin Yliopisto 224 Physicum, Kumpula Campus
Gustaf Hällströmin katu 2a FI-00560 Helsinki

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