Re: [Phys-l] CO2 Doesn't Heat the Atmosphere ...

[John Denker <jsd@av8n.com>]

On 08/31/2010 01:09 PM, Folkerts, Timothy J wrote:

> My first impression is that this statement is correct as far as it goes,

No, it's not even a little bit correct.

> but that the CO2 is NOT in LTE with the N2.  

And that's why.

> There is a photon gas that is not in thermal equilibrium with the
> physical gases in the atmosphere.  The photons CAN transfer energy to
> the CO2.  This means the CO2 is NOT in thermal equilibrium with the N2
> (the CO2 always being slightly warmer due to the interaction with the
> "hot" photon gas).  This allows the CO2 to indeed transfer energy to the
> N2 and provide a warming to the atmosphere.

Quite so.

If we were so foolish as to accept Vonk's notion of LTE,
it would be impossible for _anything_ to heat _anything_.

When studying any kind of heat transport, you may wish to
restrict attention to NEAR-equilibrium conditions, but if
you set things up so that everything is always fully in 
equilibrium, you have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

I call particular attention to Vonk's categorical and emphatic 
statement that *These rates are exactly equal.*