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Re: [Phys-l] momentum dissipation?



Consider the case of a motorboat accelerating by exchanging momentum with the fluid water. It would seem that in such cases it is legitimate to speak of the dissipation of momentum by the water. Similar cases occur with aircraft/atmosphere interactions.

Bob Sciamanda
Physics, Edinboro Univ of PA (Em)
treborsci@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/res12merh/

--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Denker" <jsd@av8n.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 12:44 PM
To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] momentum dissipation?

According to the Subject: line and the previous discussion,
we are mainly discussing the statement:

momentum does not dissipate as heat. [1]

I don't see what the fuss is about.

Sure, the long passage quoted in the original post is
open to misinterpretation, but I reckon _anything_ can
be misinterpreted if you work at it hard enough.

Statement [1] is 100% true and important. Specifically:
-- Both energy and momentum can flow across the boundary
from one system to another, but
-- Mechanical energy can be _dissipated_ in such a way
that it disappears from both systems ... whereas
momentum cannot be _dissipated_ in this way.

I speak of "mechanical energy" because in problems of
this kind, students are expected to quantify only the
mechanical energy, in contrast to thermal energy which
they are /not/ expected to quantify. You will notice
the statement of the problem dit not include any info
about heat capacity or other information that would
permit a quantitative discussion of thermal energy.

We agree that the quoted passage does not do a good
job of _explaining_ why mechanical energy can be
dissipated while momentum cannot ... but it was not
intended to be an explanatory passage; it is just
a lab exercise question.

I don't think a microscopic exegesis of this passage
is worth the trouble, but if you insist on asking,
I would say that the most dubious word in the whole
passage is the word "because", which is dubious in
the following way:
-- Truly, the loop-de-loop experiment is different
from the dart experiment.
-- Truly, momentum does not dissipate as heat, not
in this context or any other.
-- It's not clear that the two experiments are
mainly different "because" momentum cannot be
dissipated as heat. I would say that the dart
experiment contains built-in procedures that
(approximately!) account for dissipation of
mechanical energy by extrapolating back to t=0,
so that the question of momentum dissipation or
lack thereof does not arise ... in contrast to
the loop-de-loop experiment where extrapolation
is not done and would not tell us what we need
to know anyway.

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