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Re: [Phys-l] a conservation equation



The conservation of energy when only conservative forces are acting is really only of significant usefulness in problems involving more than one dimension - giving a really useful meaning to a force/space integral being independent of path. Since there is only one dimension of time, the usefulness of an analogaous approach for time dependent forces does not add any great advatage (or difference) over the direct integration of N2 in time.

Bob Sciamanda
Physics, Edinboro Univ of PA (Em)
treborsci@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/res12merh/

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From: "LaMontagne, Bob" <RLAMONT@providence.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 11:25 AM
To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Subject: [Phys-l] a conservation equation

I was looking at the usual derivation of conservation of energy for a ball thrown in the air. One starts with F=ma, rewrite as F=m dv/dt = m dv/dy dy/dt = m v dv/dy, and then rearrange to Fdy = mv dv. Let the force F be gravity (-mg) and integrate the rearranged version of Newton's Law from y1 to y2 and v1 to v2 to get

mgy1 + KE1 = mgy2 + KE2

One can do a similar derivation using t. Start with F = m dv/dt, rearrange to Fdt=mdv (a vector equation), let the force be -mgj (j is unit vector along vertical) and integrate from t1 to t2 and v1 to v2 (vectors). One obtains

mgt1 j + mv1 = mgt2 j +mv2

or

mgt1 j + p1 = mgt2 j + p2 (vector p's)

This is formally similar to the conservation of energy equation, the difference being that it is a vector equation and that it involves momentum and a term mgt analogous to mgy. The energy equation conserves the sum of KE and a positional energy. The other equation conserves the sum of momentum and a temporal term.

Is anyone aware of an attempt to develop a momentum-time conservation approach to physics similar to the familiar KE-position conservation approach - i.e., an attempt to avoid an impulse-momentum approach by using a conservation law involving momentum and a temporal potential of sorts similar to an avoidance of a work-KE approach by using conservation of KE and positional energies? I would assume that the biggest impediment would be finding suitable forces that are functions of time instead of position.

Bob at PC
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